Transcript of the live chat session that took place Thursday, November 12, 1998. These sessions are normally scheduled for 12 noon-1 PM Eastern Time every Thursday. Please note that the US is now on Standard Time. So in international terms, we are on at GMT -5.
These sessions are hosted by Richard Seltzer. If you would like to receive email reminders of our chat sessions, simply send a blank email message to businessonthewebchats-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/businessonthewebchats and sign up there.
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For transcripts of previous sessions and a list of future topics, click here .
For an article on how to make "business chat" work (based on this experience), click here .
Since the chat itself happens at a rapid pace, it's often difficult to note interesting facts in particular URLs as they appear on-line. Here's a place to take a more leisurely look. I've rearranged some of the pieces to try to capture the various threads of discussion (which sometimes get lost in the rush of live chat).
Please send email with your follow-on questions and comments, and suggestions for topics we should focus on in future sessions. So long as the volume of email responses is manageable, I'll post the most pertinent ones here for all to see.
Bob Zwick -- Hello everyone. I'm an independent consultant in Texas and am looking for the best ways to provide "shopping" (selling products) to my web clients.
Ron Rothenberg -- attention i-mart shoppers-
Linda Stilborne -- My text keeps scrolling off my screen as I am typing. Is this supposed to happen? I am an Internet consultant - I primarily do learning technologies, but am interested in other areas also.
Ron Rothenberg -- try setting the refresh rate to 0, linda, then manually refresh using the new messages button.
Linda Stilborne -- I forgot to say I am located in Ottawa.
Ron Rothenberg -- Ron Rothenberg, writer, financial planner, sales automation consultant and web strategist and fan, Belmont, MA
DaveSciuto -- Hello. I'm a former Digital Web Manager, now working as the Web Manager for E-Marketing at Porgress Software. I also co-host the weekly radio show, "The Computer Report," on WCAP 980AM Loeell, and co-author a weekly syndicated newspaper/magazine column called, "The Shareware Report."
Ron Rothenberg -- just one book for me, my first and last - on technology for real estate professionals. dave, I believe i have seen the shareware report.
DaveSciuto -- Ron: Great! In which publication?
Ron Rothenberg -- was it in one of the employment monthlies or in contract professional? I don't remember - i read over 100 mags / month. thank heavens for evelyn wood. is your column syndicated, or do you sell it to each pub. individually?
Linda Stilborne -- Lots of writers here today -- me too. I have written two books on the Internet -- one for teachers and one for researchers/journalists. Has Richard arrived?
Barbara -- Rich is having technical difficulty. He's trying to get on.
Barbara -- Richard is currently working on a book about buying on the Internet. He also co-authored a book about Alta Vista.
DaveSciuto -- We're always looking for technological authors to be our guests on our radio show. Richard has been a guest on the show a couple of times.
Ginia -- Hello, I'm Ginia. Starting my own market research business and need to do online meetings.
Barbara -- Richard is still trying to get in. His ISP was down.
Ron Rothenberg -- i will tell him about reliable, premium isps sometime.
Richard Seltzer -- All -- I'm finally here. Sorry. My ISP had system problems at the stroke of noon. (Yes, Ron, I need a backup or a reliable alternative.)
Ginia -- Linda, I've done a couple of tests and a lot of research. I've been involved in distance learning also. I'd love to talk with you.
Ginia -- Right now I'm trying to determine the best software to hold the meetings which is primarily why I'm here today.
Ron Rothenberg -- Ginia and linda - i have done that - worked with others looking at a problem. it is a very convenient way to have frequent, short meetings which i believe are more productive than longer meetings.
Ginia -- Thanks Ron, I don't want to monopolize this session with my questions but could I speak (email) with you and with Linda to compare notes?
Ron Rothenberg -- what's your budget? meetings can be held simply and at almost no cost with icq or powwow or there are products like lotus instant! teammeeting that are faster, better, let you demo things and run on their own dedicated server, rather than on your poor overloaded isp. That gives better performance.
Linda Stilborne -- Ginia -- lets correspond by e-mail after the session. I am currently doing reserach re online communications environments.
Ginia -- YES Linda, Would be great to email. Is it appropriate to list my email address here?
Linda Stilborne -- Ginia -- click on the name to find addresses. I have yours.
Ginia -- I just looked at ICQ but I want something that requires absolutely no download for my participants. My initial projects are online Focus Groups and my respondents need a very simple environment
Ron Rothenberg -- you can 'send' icq to participants so that it almost sets itself up - the feature is on the icq menu.
Ron Rothenberg -- instant! teammeeting requires only a version 3 browser w/java or better
Linda Stilborne -- Ginia -- you can set up forums at Delphi.
Ron Rothenberg -- Almost anything that is more complex than this sort of chat requires an additional plugin or additional software.
Ron Rothenberg -- yes, aol is an alternative too - you can set up private chat rooms - that is probably the best chat alternative of all, if all are willing to join aol.
Ginia -- Thanks for the input. AOL presents a problem because it limits my potential respondents to AOL users only and I want to be able to utilize any and all internet users (another problem of mine is how to locate respondents and capture demographic information
Richard Seltzer -- I'm quickly scanning what's been said. Ginia, what's your main interest?
Ginia -- Hi Richard, just starting a market research company and will start with doing Focus Groups online. At the moment I'm on a search for the best chat software that will be extremely easy for my participants to use.
Ron Rothenberg -- Ginia, are you familiar with the Schreiber Report? If you are looking for a web-based chat, this guy, Hy Schreiber in Canada evaluates all the fee services for web pages and he's usually right about what's the best. the full report is only $16 or so and it saved me a fortune - best piece o' web development info I ever got.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- what's the URL for the Schreiber Report?
Ron Rothenberg -- www.beseen.com offers an excellent chat - I'm not sure if there's a cost though. URL for Schreiber in a sec.
DaveSciuto -- Ron: I just signed up to run a chat are of the radio show through BeSeen. It's free.
Ron Rothenberg -- oh good -- i was very impressed by beseen.com - i used it on election night. A local radio talk show host, David Brudnoy, had an operation and lost his voice, but he carried on his analysis online using beseen.com.
Ron Rothenberg -- main page
of schreiber's guide: http://emax.ca/learnhtml/
also, check out the page on web promotion: http://www.ottmall.com/learnhtml/promote.html
I can not recommend this guide too highly to anyone creating or promoting
web sites, particular beginners. There are people selling a lot of crap
out there, and schreiber isn't one of them. i saved at least what i paid
within one hour of getting the guide.
DaveSciuto -- Yahoo and Excite both offer "communities or clubs" with treaded discussions, dist. lists, chat area, scheduling/calendars.
Linda Stilborne -- I am curious about why Ginia wishes to use chat -- rather than web based forums for research?
Ginia -- Linda, by web based forums do you things like CommuityWare and such? I'm looking to purchase the software so that my respondents get to it through my web page and so that I can customize what they see and what they can do. For instance, I wouldn't want them communicating to other rooms (whispering, etc.) because it would detract from the Focus Group discussion
Linda Stilborne -- I am thinking of Web conferencing software -- which is commonly done asynchronously, but since on many messages can be posted immediately it can also be used synchrnously.
Richard Seltzer -- Linda -- My favorite is AltaVista Forum. You should be able to get a trial version at http://www.altavista.software.digital.com
Ginia -- Linda, would like to talk to you about web conferencing. Have lots of thoughts on that. Looked at ICHAT which seems really nice on paper but again I had response time problems (could be AOL stuff)
Barbara -- Has anyone bought things over the Internet?
Ron Rothenberg -- i have bought lots of computer equipment over the internet, both new and used. books, some clothing, a catalytic converter, and other stuff too.
DaveSciuto -- Reading ZDnet's
AnchorDesk this mornign with Jesse Berst. He says on e-shopping:
Shoppers will spend $2.3 billion online this holiday season (Jupiter
Communications) 43% of computer users will likely shop online this holiday
(Dell/Louis Harris & Associates) Annual Web commerce will hit $425
billion by 2002 (International Data Corp.)
Richard Seltzer -- Dave -- you quoted some stats about Internet shopping. Do you know if that was just consumer shopping? Or did that include business-to-business (which seems to be far greater)?
DaveSciuto -- Richard: Jesse's colunm seems slanted toward consumer purchases.
DaveSciuto -- The Berst article points out the tradional (first two) and his reasons for the increase in e-commerce:Speed, Convenience, Geographic,Time, Information,, Switching costs
Ron Rothenberg -- Dave, is that today's berst article on the e-commerce explosion and the upcoming christmas consumption season?
DaveSciuto -- Ron: Yes
Ron Rothenberg -- info on
berst article and link: ECOMMERCE EXPLOSION CREATES WINNERS -- AND VICTIMS
http://www.anchordesk.com/a/adt1112ba/2759
"As
shoppers descend on the Web, will you find ecstasy or exasperation? Join
me at the site for a look at why consumers are -- and are not -- preparing
to
spend online this holiday and beyond."
DaveSciuto -- Interesting reader reponse to the AnchorDesk Column today:
What are you most likely to buy online?
Richard Seltzer -- Linda -- services sounds like a good idea; and I'm not so sure that housecleaning wouldn't work. Online might make it easier to sort of availability and scheduling.
Ron Rothenberg -- Linda, I work with many, many people who sell real estate services (mostly buyer brokerage) on line. There are a few who have 100% internet businesses.
Ron Rothenberg -- My hairstylist is on line. of course, you have to go to her salon to get the actual cut.
DaveSciuto -- Linda: Good point. I don't think I've seen much written about buying online services except from hi-tech companies, and would-be pychiatrists!
Ron Rothenberg -- Internet backup services such as atrieva and connected do a great deal of their sellings on line.
Ron Rothenberg -- Selling services and other intangibles has always been more difficult than selling products in any medium, so I'm not surprised that people are still trying to figure that out on the internet.
Linda Stilborne -- I bought a book a while ago -- but it involved phoning the company with your credit care # and thereby setting up an account. I have also purchased software. That involved sending a credit card # by e-mail.
Richard Seltzer -- Are any of the folks now connected directly involved in Internet shopping? Either as vendors or consumers?
DaveSciuto -- I typically buy all my music and books online. Software and hardware is a second choice for me.
Richard Seltzer -- Re: shopping. If you were to try to do your Christmas shopping online, where would you start? A portal site? Or a particular company? Which one and why?
DaveSciuto -- I would go directly to places that I know online to buy from. If I'm looking for something different that I need to buy elsewhere online, I typically will either ask/read around for more info on the vendor, or, if the item is inexpensive, I might take a chance. I buy about two items a month online. Luckily, I haven't been burned yet.
Linda Stilborne -- Hmm -- Christmas shopping. I think I would like a portal site -- only because that would feel more like a department store where I usually shop for Christmas. The alternative would work if you knew what you wanted to buy.
Richard Seltzer -- Linda -- what portal do you prefer and why? (Increasingly, to me at least, they all look very much the same).
Barbara -- My problem is I'm not sure what I want to buy for people for Christmas. I need a place where I can browse and get ideas - inexpensive ideas.
Richard Seltzer -- Barb -- I was just looking at the hotbot portal site. They have a "gift suggestions" feature. (I'm sure there are lots of others that do that too.)
Richard Seltzer -- I'm interested both in the general -- how to dive in -- and also in the specific -- lots of different product categories where the online experience is significatly different (e.g., cars and houses and books and collectibles...)
Ron Rothenberg -- software was always a natural for online sale. Sales of software have been big online for years. It is lightyears ahead of other products and services. software can even be delivered online immediately - unlike more tangible products. I needed a copy of "taxcut 97 for massachusetts" last month and I was able to buy it, download it, and be using it within 20 minutes.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- Software has two advantages 1) the folks who are most likely to be customers are online often and feel comfortable there and 2) the product doesn't have to be physically shipped, you can download it and get immediate gratification.
DaveSciuto -- Richard and Ron: Your points on buying/downloading software online is what's making shareware very appealing today.
Richard Seltzer -- Do any of you have direct experience using either online classifieds or auctions to sell as well as buy?
Ron Rothenberg -- I have bought and sold much used computer hardware, mostly in usenet newsgroups. I am very wary of the auction sites for many reasons -- the first being that the actual prices aren't all that great. There is an article in PC World this month (brand new issue) where they found much pirated software being sold on auction sites.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- what about classified ads? that would seem to be a natural place for buying or selling used gear.
Ron Rothenberg -- Richard -- the usenet newsgroups are essentially classified ads. the classification is in the newsgroup misc.forsale.pc.memory is pretty specific about what class of product you'll find for sale there.
Ron Rothenberg -- my nephew wears a size 14aaa shoe - very hard to find. I was able to find some custom shoemakers for narrow feet on the web. That is a rare oddball product, like the special catalytic converter i needed last week. Couldn't get it around here.
Richard Seltzer -- Linda -- Sorry. I didn't see that earlier note. Are you outside the US? And is it the cost of the duties or the delay that causes in shipment? (Sounds like a good business opportunity to facilitate customs on shipments of online purchases, by way of an online service.)
Linda Stilborne -- I am in Canada. I recently signed up for a distance ed course from the U.K. They sent me a package of articles and books -- and Canada Customs sent me a bill along with it for about $30.
Ron Rothenberg -- Linda, doesn't nafta clear the way, at least for canada, us and mexico?
Richard Seltzer -- Linda -- that is very surprising for Canada. I, too, thought that NAFTA would eliminate that kind of hassle and cost.
Linda Stilborne -- The customs issue is an interesting one. Making this info available for lots of international companies trying to sell their wares would be valuable. Maybe such a service already exists??
Ron Rothenberg -- linda,
they should have sent it to you in pdf format and had you print it out
at your house - you would have saved customs, they would have saved shipping,
and delivery would have been almost instant.
it is also surprisingly expensive to ship from the us to canada.
Linda Stilborne -- Good point about .pdf format. Electronic texts are on the horizon, but most Universities are not able to offer much of this just now -- publishers need to come on side. Ironically, one of the books I paid duty on was a CANADIAN book being used by the U.K. university -- The book was even out of date, making the whole thing even more infuriating. Actually, I think NAFTA is just a big smokescreen for some people doing what they want re the global ecomomy and the rest of just having to continue pay money when the government requests.
Richard Seltzer -- Linda -- FedEx advertises that they help expedite customs on shipments (a TV ad I've seen over and over again). It seems like that should be doable by others as well.
Ron Rothenberg -- i wonder what Amazon does? Do they have a shipping point in canada?
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- I've noticed in the last month that Amazon set up separate stores in the UK and Germany. They could be motivated by both shipping charges and customs.
Ron Rothenberg -- also they registered amazontv.com and amazontelevision.com. wonder what they're going to be doing with that?
Bob Zwick -- I recently shipped to Panama and DHL took care of customs charges. The total was less than 5% of the invoice.
Linda Stilborne -- My publishers are Trifoium Books in Canada and Guilford Publsihing in the U.S. -- also have something about to be published by Teacher's College Press. Publishers have web sites featuring their books, and many make sure Amazon knows about them, but I think most still use conventional distribution channels.
Bob Zwick -- Linda, sounds like the selling of your books is left up to the publishers entirely. Have you experimented with the buying experience related to your books at Amazon or any other sites your publishers use. Is it a pleasant or difficult experience for the shopper ?
Linda Stilborne -- I have visited Amazon for other books -- but not bought. I have not checked to see if people would have actually bought my book there. I do my own marketing as I can -- presentations, workshops, but it is hard to cover all of the bases re sales.
Richard Seltzer -- Linda -- at the very least you should sign up as an "associate" at Amazon. Takes just a couple minutes to fill out the online form and about 24 hours to get approval. Then you can set up pages with special links to the page for your book at their site, and if people buy that way you get up to 15% back as a finder's fee. Not a big source of revenue, but very little hassle.
Linda Stilborne -- Richard -- thank you for that suggestions. My eariler visit to Amazon just entailed filling out an author bio. I did not know about the "associate" stuff. By the way -- I am a fan our yours and have mentioned your page in both of my books!
Richard Seltzer -- Linda -- thanks. What are the titles of the books? (Must have been mentioned before I connected).
Linda Stilborne -- As long as someone
has asked -- my books:
Co-author The Teacher's Complete & Easy Guide to the Internet
"Best Education Title", BookExpo, Chicago
The Internet Handbook for Writers, Researchers, and Journalists"
http://www.sentex.net/~mmcadams/book/handbook.html
"Finalist: Benjamin Franklin Award"
http://www.guilford.com/writernet
Ron Rothenberg -- if barnes & noble sends me a check for $100 / quarter for books sold on my site, i consider that a roaring success.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- I get a similar amount from Amazon every quarter; and I also take part in there "Advantage" program, for small and do-it-yourself publishers, where they hold some of my books on a consignment basis, so they can fill orders on them within 24 hours.
Richard Seltzer -- Dave -- I put a couple of pages on my Web site to help my parents promote a little jewelry business that they have on the side. Nothing fancy. No online transactions. But the pages are in the major search engine indices and they get email responses that they turn into sales (with payment by check).
Richard Seltzer -- Dave -- will you be using any of those quicky online store offers -- like Yahoo?
DaveSciuto -- Rich: I've seen the Yahoo store offers online (at Yahoo), but haven't investigated it yet. Anyone know how they're doing?
Richard Seltzer -- Dave -- For a few issues there was a joke column in Internet Week trying to find any Yahoo stores that were successful. But that really gets to a different issue -- what makes an online store successful? Just having a transaction processing, credit card mechanism doesn't mean you have a business.
DaveSciuto -- I think the online consumer needs a very high level of trust before he/she buys something from a shop online. Name recognition helps, as does WOM, and publicized sucess stories. We recently had Elvira on your show. She's opened an online store to peddle her products and says sales are great. A known entity helps a lot with online purchases.
Bob Zwick -- Linda, in my research of Web Shopping environments I actually go through the buying proceedure up un til I get to the "Place Your Order" button. This gives me an idea of what the shopper actually experiences. Some sites are intimidating and confusing while others seem much more user friendly. If I were to sell products I would want the user experience a pleasant one so that shoppers would return.
Linda Stilborne -- i believe IBM has a service facilitating online sales for small business people.
Tim Horgan -- We created a web site for my wife's business, Faces of Unity (http://www.wtp.net/bus-con/faces/), and found some interesting results. She has had few sales from this area (she does several craft fairs and has people who seek her out there), but several from other countries (Japan!). Most of the inquiries have been from stores that want to sell her goods. We had not expected that, and it works out well, as stores do a higher volume and take less work than individual sales. So it's been a positive expeience - but not in the ways she expected.
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Tim. I didn't realize you were out there. What is "Faces of Unity"? What does your wife sell?
Tim Horgan -- Richard, got here late. My wife makes custom jewelry - hard to show on the web, but she wanted to try. And it's brought in some sales. We also put up a site for my neighbor's hardware store. He has done all of his business in other countries (Russia, the Middle East) where they have a hard time getting tools! Often they have to pay as much in shipping as for the tool, but they say it's worth it!
Richard Seltzer -- Tim -- That's interesting. What are you doing to promote the jewelry and the hardware? How do people know how to find you?
Barbara -- I have to log off. I enjoyed the discussion.
Richard Seltzer -- All -- yes, we've gone past 1 PM. (I got here so late, the time has flown.) Please post your URLs and email addresses before you sign off (don't presume the software captured that info). Also, please send me your followup comments at seltzer@samizdat.com for inclusion with the transcript. I want to continue this topic next week. Please spread the word.
Linda Stilborne -- Good discussion -- thanks folks. Thank your Richard for hosting. I hope to return another time.
Ron Rothenberg -- Ron Rothenberg, Homebase@world.std.com Thanks to everone.
Bob Zwick -- Bye all - Bob
Zwick bob@cottagemicro.com Cottage Micro Services
103 Vinyard Drive, Waxahachie, TX 75167
PH (972) 435-2446 www.cottagemicro.com ICQ 779704
*Web Hosting*Design*Outsourcing*Contract Programming*Network Consulting
& Service*
DaveSciuto -- dave@scryber.com http://theReport.com Got to go. Great discussion this week! UMass/Lowell is running a community computer lab for Lowell OnLine. We may be doing something with e-comm in the future.
Richard Seltzer -- Thanks to all. Please come again next Thursday, November 18. (We'll be taking a break the week after that, for Thanksgiving.)
I really enjoyed the chat session yesterday...
I wanted to pass a couple of things on to you since you are writing a book about online shopping -- (one is a comment I made yesterday, but which did not get posted, because I think I clicked on the wrong button.)
1. A friend of mine has a sister who started selling ear candles online and suddenly found herself with something of a booming business (given that she was selling ear candles and not beanie babies). It struck me that the reason this was successful may have been because she was marketing a specialized product which is probably hard to find in stores in small towns and rural areas. If you are going to talk about what kinds of things sell well online, this may be an useful observation to include if you think it's valid.
2. Some time ago I was speaking to a man who ran one of the Microsoft Online courses. He said that they quickly discovered that people are reassured about online offerings by being sent "stuff" (his word.) For his course, they started sending out T-shirts, mugs and a CD to people who enrolled in the course, even though the course itself was totally online. This may not relate directly to online sales, but I think people are still very suspicious of dealing with a company only virtually, unless they know the company name. Unfortunately, this makes is hard for smaller dealers -- who are also the ones who can potentially gain the most form online marketing. My thought is that smaller dealers might benefit from sending out something tangible to potential online customers -- such as a coupon book or catalogue with a couple of sample items and prices. I think getting people to trust the online world is a big hurdle, and that vendors need to think about how to build bridges between the real world and online products and services.
I hope to be able to attend another of your online sessions.
Cheers --
Lnda Stilborne, Learning Technology Consultant Ottawa, Ont., Co-author The Teacher's Complete & Easy Guide to the Internet, http://www.ingenia.com/~trifolium/ The Internet Handbook for Writers, Researchers, and Journalists"http://www.sentex.net/~mmcadams/book/handbook.html
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