Transcript of the live chat session that took place Thursday, January 29, 1998. These sessions are normally scheduled for 12 noon-1 PM Eastern Time (GMT -5) every Thursday.
These sessions are hosted by Richard Seltzer. If you would like to receive email reminders of our chat sessions, simply send a blank email message to businessonthewebchats-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/businessonthewebchats and sign up there.
For transcripts of previous sessions and a list of future topics, click here .
For an article on how to make "business chat" work (based on this experience), click here .
Since the chat itself happens at a rapid pace, it's often difficult to note interesting facts in particular URLs as they appear on-line. Here's a place to take a more leisurely look. I've rearranged some of the pieces to try to capture the various threads of discussion (which sometimes get lost in the rush of live chat).
Please send email with your follow-on questions and comments, and suggestions for topics we should focus on in future sessions. So long as the volume of email responses is manageable, I'll post the most pertinent ones here for all to see.
drvel -- hello
Ira -- hello
John Gilbert -- Howdy one and all.
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, all. Glad to see such a good turn out right at the start. Please introduce yourselves and let us know your interests.
Ken Merwin -- Greetings all...Ken from Wisconsin post super bowl.
Marshall Wick -- Hi My name is Marshall Wick and I teach business administration courses at Gallaudet University. All my courses are web enhanced and capable of being converted to DL courses and one of them has been taught as an online course and i will teach two this summer session (Management and Business Law I)
Richard Seltzer -- Marshall -- Is Gallaudet the university for the deaf? Or am I confusing your school with another one?
Marshall Wick -- Yes, Gallaudet is the university for the deaf!
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Hello all - I'm a consultant in the Dallas Texas area and am interested in using the internet in all educational capacities. I am currently working on a local community education enhancement site.
Shannon Daviss -- hello everyone!
John Gilbert -- I think the answer to distance education lies in both the methodology and the intent of the education.
Richard Seltzer -- John -- Yes, methodology and intent are very important. But new factors come into play when the Internet is the medium. Getting ready for today, I was mulling over what it is that we "learn" -- facts, awareness, howto, people networking, how to remember (the Web as an extension of our memories), and behavior change.
John Gilbert -- Richard -- which other factors come into play with the internet. As I understand, the internet is basically a communications tool. It is highly advanced, but a tool nonetheless. For anything you do, your objectives would have to determine which method you would use for dealing with the speed the internet provides.
Richard Seltzer -- All -- further mullings -- Increasingly, I find that I memorize and completely remember very little. Rather I retain enough to know 1) what's available, 2) what's you might be able to do with it, and 3) where/how to find it when you need it. In other words, the Internet -- and the assurance that the resources of the Internet will be there when I need them -- is changing how I think and how I remember, and hence what and how I learn. I guess what I'm getting at is that the Internet is not just another medium for delivering content (like TV and snailmail), and it's not just an environment for interaction (one of my favorite topics). At the same time the Internet becomes an extension of how you rmeember, how you think, how you work. It's extraordinary when the means by which a course is "delivered" is also at the same time so intimately a part of your life. Does this ring true to the rest of you? If so, what are the implications in terms of distance education?
Richard Seltzer -- John -- as in my previous note (which I was typing while you were typing yours), I belive that the Internet is far more than a "communications tool."
Marshall Wick -- I agree with Richard that while the internet is, indeed, a communication tool, it is far more than that for business students... it is a source of the very latest news and trends.
Ken Merwin -- Marshall: I agree with your comments; look at the growth in the on-line stock brokerages and forums such as "Silicon Investor", etc. I just read something this morning that commissions may end up at $0.00 because of the hot competition.
John Gilbert -- I guess it lies in what you define as communication. Written communication is at the heart of the internet. Even this chat is an exercise in reading.
Sudha Jamthe -- John: Written communication has been inportant on the web with email and now with chats. When technology improves to facilitate audio communication, it might all change.
Richard Seltzer -- John -- Amen. yes, today's Internet is very much a matter of reading and writing. But what I'm driving at is that the Internet is also a repository for lots of information, and provides simple ways to retrieve that information (hyperlinks, bookmarks, search engines, etc.) So I find myself increasingly depending on the Internet (in addition to the storage space on my PC) as an extension of my memory. Because it is so easy to retrieve the details on-line, I don't need to try to retain them in my personal memory. The Internet is also a very social space for me -- many of my closest friends "live there" (are constantly on-line; that's where I know I can find them; and in many cases, I have never met them in person, or haven't seen them in person for many years). Television, radio, and snailmail have all been used as vehicles for distance education. But none of those media has these other characteristics -- changing and becoming an intimate part of how we remember and work and interrelate and learn. If I take a course over the Internet, I come away not just with facts and howto, but also with a network of people I can keep in touch with or get back to rapidly when I need to, and a whole large extension of my memory which is materials on the Internet that I accessed during the course and can readily find again if and when I need to.
Sudha Jamthe -- Richard: That's interesting thinking about internet affecting your remembering style. Sorry to sound naive, but do you mean to say so because of the availability of information? For example, I used to remember phone numbers lots more on the top of my head till I got an organizer. Also, with your question, you are separating distance education topics on the web into two categories - analytical and evaluative courses
John Gilbert -- Albert Enstein said that he never needed to remember things like his phone number because he knew where to look it up. Often the tools we use to make life easier often have things we have to remember, so many details get lost in the shuffle.
Richard Seltzer -- John -- I'm inclined to think that not needing to remember the details is an enormous advantage. There's so much to read, to learn, to do. And I believe that one of the major benefits of distance education over the Internet is that it helps people to wake up to the opportunities -- to the new ways of thinking and working and interacting (aside from the direct content of the course).
Ken Merwin -- Richard: how true regarding "friends" living on the 'Net; my wife and I live in a very small town and our circle of 'Net friends far exceeds our local friends; however, there is still something lacking in perhaps never getting to see the faces but that will come in time...
Sudha Jamthe -- Hi Ken: Richard has tried a variety of conferencing softwares. We tried a new online auditorium called Placeware http://www.placeware.com from Web-Net where Richard was our speaker. What is your specific interest in this area? Since these do audio streaming it works best from outside or with a firewall.
Ken Merwin -- Sudha: thanks. My interest is in seeing how these types of packages can be/perhaps are being used in conferences that are truely "global" and are also sensitive to bandwidth constraints. For example, I have already heard from several that "Cu-Seeme" (with audio & video) ONLY works well with lots of bandwidth. Using it with a 28.8 modem connection is, frankly, a rip-off.
Sudha Jamthe -- Ken: We liked the audio capability of placeware. Its a browser based client and gives an audience and stage window. People can talk to others in their row or raise hand and ask a question to all. The speaker can speak in broadcast mode or 1-1 with anyone. Check http://www.placeware.com Richard has written in his site about his experience as a placeware speaker.
Richard Seltzer -- Ken -- I'm also very interested in the educational possibilities of CUSeeMe. I just spent a small fortune upgrading my PC so I can do that sort of stuff and now I'm at a deadend. I don't have any friends or relatives who are equipped for videophone kinds of things. I find that talking to strangers that way (in wideopen chat style) gets boring very quickly. But how can this technology be used for education? It's easy to imagine the possiblities -- but is anybody actually doing it? And what are the technical limitations? Is there anyway to connect directly with a set of students? Or do you always have to go through a "reflector" site? Seems very awkward and cumbersome. I wouldn't know how to build a course environment from scratch with this stuff.
Ken Merwin-- Richard - I hear exactly what you are saying; CUSeeMe can (from what I understand) be used modem to modem for a 1:1 by "dialing" ones IP #; I do not have video but just got a post from a guy at a college who says even with lots of bandwidth the audio "sucks"; chat is about all that works well.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Software packages that are being used are evolving rapidly. As a developer and webmaster I am interested in making the education experience more congruous. That is to not have to use one package one day and another program another. Tying it all together on a single site is going to be the hard part.
Richard Seltzer -- Ken -- re: CUSeeMe -- I've never seen it used modem-to-modem -- sounds like that would be an expensive way to operate, since you'd probably end up with long-distance charges. For audio, Vocaltech's Internet Phone seems good and also includes video; but once again, it seems that you have to go through some server site. I don't see any easy way for an individual to set up on his/her PC to interact directly by audio/video with a set of students. As an alternative, I'd like to see hosting services that would make that easy -- for a reasonable fee I could set up my course there. Does anybody know of such services?
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Richard - There are hosting services out there, but until hardware, software and bandwidth become reasonably priced it will be expensive to rent those services.
Marshall Wick -- As an example, TCC (teaching in the community colleges) has a great annual online conference and presentations are done in MOO's. That is wonderful but you need a client for that and there was so much frustration among participants last year (and remember they are technologists) in trying to get their clients installed and to work, following instructions, etc. I couldn't wish that upon my students--the focus should not be on the technology and getting it to work but learning the subject matter of the course.
Ken Merwin -- Richard: by going modem to modem by "dialing" the other party IP address you'd be using the Internet. The only problem for those with dial-in accounts would be the dynamic IP address so you'd need to exchange the current address by e-mail or voice beforehand.
John Gilbert -- I am currently working with a man who has come up with a way to compress information so that televideo conferencing can be done over regular phone lines. It is sort of like the compression techniques used for postscript. The only problem is that the wire itself causes static which slows down the process.
Richard Seltzer -- John -- this compression stuff is amazing. It seems that software developers are taking advantage of the fact that the average user now has a Pentium with at least 100 MHz. So local processing makes up for the slowness of communication lines. I wonder how far that can go? While I get a charge out of the little fuzzy, jerky video images I see today on my PC; they aren't really ready for prime time; I get the impression that a human being is on the other end; and the audio is often sharp; but the image isn't much good. I expect that the porno industry will lead the way here.
Ken Merwin -- So we could chat about Clinton's sex life while watching CNN! Cool!
John Gilbert -- Business to education to porno. What else can the web do? ;-)
Marshall Wick -- You will see i have a little film clip from my home page which says in sign language "My name is Marshall Wick, welcome to my home page" to give an idea of how video will work some day but while we are all using Pentimum pro's or Pentium II's to develop stuff we have to remember that even if the average computer user has quite sophisticated equipment that does not mean our students do and we must be careful not to exclude the 'have nots'. With the price decline to under $1,000 now, though, i don't see this as a problem a couple of years from now.
Richard Seltzer -- Marshall -- I'm familiar with some of the challenges and opportunities for the blind on the Internet (I'm frequently in contact with Diane Croft at the National Braille Press). But I'm uncertain about how deafness presents problems and opportunities in this medium. It seems with all the reading and typing, and little need to listen, that this could be an excellent medium. But are there hidden problems/barriers?
Marshall Wick -- Richard, well there is a growing problem in that the sources i send my students to for up to date information sometimes contain audio and where there is video, the clips are not captioned. That too, though, will probably change as we learn to use technology tools to make things truly multimedia. Our goal at Gallaudet is to become visually rich in all our materials. Still too early in the development to make much use of video but Gallaudet is part of the Internet2 and that will give us a head start in developing future materials.
Richard Seltzer -- Marshall -- Long shot kind of thought -- Digital Equipment's Cambridge Research Labs has some technology which they call Face-to-Face which converts phonemes (in any language) to facial muscle movements on a three-day image on your PC screen. You can feed live audio, recorded audio or even audio generated from text. If they could refine that a bit more, there might be a way to tie that into an automatic sign language generator. Would that be of value?
Marshall Wick -- Richard, I will have them look into the DEC Research stuff. thanks for the tip. I try to focus on using technology rather than getting involved in its development.
Richard Seltzer -- Marshall -- I'm probably imaginatively stretching the limits of what can be done today. But if you are interested in checking this stuff out, contact Mike Essig. I believe his email is essig@crl.dec.com Last I heard, they were about to put a trial kit up on the Web. It may be available now.
Ken Merwin -- Marshall - a very interesting point about the audio/video stuff and lack of captioning; I know there is someone affiliated with the "Global Learn Day II" group I'm volunteering some time to who is involved with issues of access; I'll need to look his/her information up to see if that is addressed anywhere.
Marshall Wick -- Sudha, i do post most of my notes on the web and have kept it completely open to anyone to use, especially my Business Law Terminology pages (there are over 500 of them and it took a lot of work to write and put them up so why not let anyone use them if it will help enhance education elsewhere.
Richard Seltzer -- Marshall -- what's the URL for those notes of yours?
Marshall Wick -- Richard, just go to my home page and you will find links to all my courses that are web enhanced. The home page also gives you lots of business links in general. You can check it out when this conf is over..... Feedback and constructive criticism is MOST welcome!
Marshall Wick -- It is obviously a lot more work than giving the regular lecture but if students learn more, or learn the same in a more convenient and effective way, let's do that. I use a variety of techniques--conferencing with Lotus Domino, (asynchronous comm), java chat (synch comm), online quizzes, tutorials, etc.
Sudha Jamthe -- Marshall: Interesting. One of my BU Profs posts her class notes on the web and adds updates following our class discussions but its more of a reference than interaction. I would think its tough to preserve the discussions unless you take the time to transcript them often. What's your biggest challenge in this?
Marshall Wick-- Sudha, oh, i wasn't thinking in terms of the chat--because i am using java chat that is available free, i am not capable of recording and posting transcripts of the chat but i do not see that as a limitation.... we do posting on the asynch forum so if issues of interest come up in chat, we can post them on the forum for further indepth discussion. Chat by it's nature cannot be compared to forums--we write on the fly without time to reflect on what we are writing but it definitely has its place, like right here where we can get instant feedback on comments, etc.
Marshall Wick -- Chat definitely has value in developing a sense of community among the students, especially if they are all at a distance.
Richard Seltzer -- Marshall -- the notion of chat transcripts is a favorite topic of mine. I firmly believe that it is well worth the time and effort to edit (restoring threads) and post transcripts. If you have forum software available, then post the transcripts there. At these live sessions, we get maybe at most two dozen active participants. But once the transcripts are posted and indexed at search engines like AltaVista, they continually draw new traffic and new email messages with further insights. Some transcripts of session held more than a year ago have had as many as a thousand visitors in the last 8 months.
Ken Merwin -- Richard: Your work in organizing the logs from this chat is noticed; the Instructor of the Univ. of Iowa course I'm taking noted this as one of the best uses of Chat she's seen; she does not like chat for her course but I'm working to help move us to a chat much like you use.
Marshall Wick -- Ken, i have echoed your comments on how Richard is using chat here! I do agree.
Marshall Wick -- Chat is very useful in letting students goof off and even goof off with the teacher. It is great for making announcements but not very useful unless strictly moderated to discuss anything in real depth. The fact that Richard is editing these chats and reorganing them and then making them available for futher discussion does make it possible to get some depth here. That is far too much work for me to do in my regular classes though so Lotus Domino is the answer for me and any asynchronous forum would do it.
Marshall Wick -- I have reviewed some of the back chats and find them very useful, indeed. Chats are often time-bound though--discussing an issue of the day, however, becomes less meaningful with the passage of time. And Richard, i am sure that you have been thanked for your work on this but i want to add my own thanks.
Richard Seltzer -- Marshall -- thanks for the kind words about how this chat works. Basically, when the technology doesn't make things easy, it's still a good idea to do what seems to be right to serve the audience. So I do a lot of stuff by hand, and learn from it. And, of course, I always welcome followup email, which I add to the transcripts, letting those who can't connect at the scheduled time participate to some extent. If I had forum available, I'd post the transcripts there and encourage the dialogue to continue in that medium. (Though there is perhaps some value to the editorial/selective function I play in posting those.)
Ken Merwin -- Marshall - I'm not a chat "pro" but I recall playing around with one of the Java chat applets that also allowed for access using a regular chat tool like mIRC; I was able to use mIRC to do the logging and the java chat to carry on a conversation between myself(a) and myself(b); I think it's what "Virtual University" is using...
Marshall Wick -- Ken, i do use MIRC also on a personal level but it requires a local client and the less i ask of students to download programs, install, etc. the more comfortable the students are, so i have avoided requiring add-ons, plug-ins, etc. as much as i can. At some point in the future, though, it will all be built into a nice package.
Ken Merwin -- Marshall - a good point. I would only use the mIRC as chat leader to do the log capturing and let the students do the java applet side of it although I believe some of those chats cannot be accessed by mIRC and similar client software.
Richard Seltzer -- John -- sounds interesting. What's the URL for UTAHlink?
John Gilbert -- You can access UTAHLink at home. I don't have the URL handy. Parents in several school districts use it to check up on their child's attendance, grades and homework as well as talk to teacher.
Ken Merwin -- John: I understand Arizona also has an extensive program, NAUNet, I believe. Does UTAHLink also have into the home capability?
Richard Seltzer -- Ken -- What's the URL for NAUNet?
Ken Merwin -- I'll post that Arizona stuff later; have to search my million links!
Shannon Daviss -- I am currently getting my MS over the internet...in Instructional Technology & DL
Richard Seltzer -- Shannon -- where are you taking those courses? (and what's the URL for the institution?)
Shannon Daviss -- I am also involved with videoconference DL at work...has anyone used Net Podium before?
Richard Seltzer -- Shannon -- no, I'm not familiar with Net Podium. Who makes it? What's it's special capabilities? What the URL to get more info?
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Shannon, is that video conferencing via tv, satelite, or network ?
Shannon Daviss -- Bob: via TV...the sites are Managed by an outside vendor called V-Span
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Shannon, what organization are you getting your degree from ( url ) ?
Shannon Daviss -- I am taking them at Nova Southeastern University... http://www.nova.edu
Richard Seltzer -- Shannon -- ah, yes. Nova. I'm acting as tutor (support person) for a course there, and will be heading down for a face-to-face session Feb. 11-13. Will you be there?
Shannon Daviss -- Richard: I won't be down there in Feb...my session is scheduled 3/7-3/13....what cluster do you work with?
Ken Merwin -- Richard - I'll second that re: Bob & last week. Hippos, neat. We saw lots of them in Kenya, too. Giraffes are my favorite.
Richard Seltzer -- All -- time is running out again. My feeling is that this topic still has some life in it. I'd like to continue it at least one more week. What's your feeling?
Marshall Wick -- Okie.... i will be back again next week if this topic is continued. Make it a great weekend!
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Richard, I vote yes for another week.
Ken Merwin -- Another week would be fine; for me this is well worth the time. See you next Thursday.
Shannon Daviss -- I would like to chat again next week...I joined this one a little too late.
Richard Seltzer -- Sounds like the yeses make it. Distance ed again next week.
Richard Seltzer -- All -- before you sign off, please post your email and URL address so we can stay in touch. Thanks for joining us this week. Hope you can come again next week. Please spread the word.
Ken Merwin -- mailto:kmgraduw@centuryinter.net
John Gilbert -- See you next week. add_options@yahoo.com
Shannon Daviss -- Shannon Davis, Ernst & Young LLP, Home email: thedaviss@msn.com
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Bob Zwick bob@cottagemicro.com, Cottage Micro Services, 103 Vinyard Drive, Waxahachie, TX 75167, PH/FX: (972) 435-2446 http://www.cottagemicro.com ...... ICQ 779704
Linda H. Boyd -- I'm charged with coordinating a group of faculty members who are working to develop on-line courses at DeKalb College. We are having our first chat this afternoon and someone suggested I look in on your chat session. It has been very informative. We are just beginning.
Richard Seltzer -- Linda -- hope you can join us again next week -- and bring friends...
Richard Seltzer -- All -- as usual, I'll post the edited transcript in the next few days. Check http://www.samizdat.com/#chat
I don't know if you are currently interested in K12 or not. If not, perhaps some of your colleages would be. Please feel free to pass this on to anyone you believe may find it useful.
Regards,
Zane
WIRED TOGETHER: THE ONLINE CLASSROOM IN K-12, Edited by Zane L. Berge and Mauri P. Collins
A 4 volume set of books is announced by Hampton Press, Inc., 23 Broadway, Cresskill, New Jersey, 07626 USA Voice: 201-894-1686, FAX: 201-894-8732, Orders: 1-800-894-8955
These books are intended for the practitioner and many chapters are case studies, providing the reader with models to use in practice. This series is designed especially for all members of the primary and secondary educational community. The chapter authors focus on the pedagogical challenges in their various situations and write about how computer mediated communication is used to address them.
The introductory chapter for each of these books is available online at the Moderators Homepage (URL listed below). Each of the introductions describes the scope of the book, lists the authors, and describes briefly each of the chapters. Ordering information is included.
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Hi Richard, having only recently found your site with the chat transcripts I would very much like to join in one live. I used to have a few world time calculation and maps sites ( I think I got them from the TCC conference) but now can't find them- do you have any? Maybe it would be a good thing to link to.
I was most interested in people's experience of incorporating chat for educational purposes. We use First Class to organise our communication with students. This has a chat facility and we have trialed using it to run tutorial type sessions. It seems to work best in generating a fun atmosphere and getting the group to mesh, and not so well for delivering content. We found too that individual teachers either loved or hated chat- possibly depending on their keyboarding skills- so would leave it to the teacher to choose to use synchronous or asynchronous communication with their classes.
Claire Brooks http://www.wodonga.tafe.edu.au
Off Campus Coordinator, Wodonga Institute of TAFE, 15 McKoy St, Wodonga, 3690 Victoria, Australia
Previous transcripts and schedule of upcoming chats -- www.samizdat.com/chat.html
To connect to the chat room, go to www.samizdat.com/chat-intro.html
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