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11:56 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Very interesting. Yaga is keeping a close eye on Distance learning,
because of potential P2P applications, sharing video streams and
educational material across Networks.
11:57 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- good idea. There are a few very good mailing lists you
might want to watch and post to. If you are interested, please drop
me an email reminder and I'll send you the addresses.
11:58 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Absolutely. As we just released the service, I believe the
following is going to be generated by vertical niche applications,
such as educational material and reference material. Posting to
groups is a great idea; I just would not want anybody to interpret
that as spamming ;-)
11:59 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- of course the difference between spam and useful info is
often spin ...
12:00 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
That's right. I just want to make sure Yaga is perceived as a real
business, providing real solutions and services, not just spinning
smoke screens! Maybe you can become our ambassador!
12:01 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Thank you for this opportunity, Richard; fully appreciated.
12:02 - richard seltzer
Welcome, PeteVH, please introduce yourself and let us know your
interests. Arnaud Fischer is here with us today to tell us about
12:03 - PeteVH
Hi Richard and all -- I've been in and out of these demos and
really enjoy and learn from them here. That's my interest.
12:04 - richard seltzer
Pete -- Glad you could make it. I'm sure that there are some very
interesting possible uses for P2P solutions for distance ed. You
might want to address questions of that kind directly to Arnaud --
do some chat-based brainstorming.
12:10 - Ron Rothenberg
Hello, Ron Rothenberg here.
12:13 - richard seltzer
Welcome, Ron. Please introduce yourself and let us know your
interests. (Also, what business are you in these days? Did you
finish that extensive training program you went through? And have
you started a new business of your own or found a job with someone
else's company or what?)
12:14 - Ron Rothenberg
Hi Richard, still running an ebay store and looking for a
12:15 - Ron Rothenberg
I finished the sun training program and am a sun certified java
programmer, but no one seems to want programmers these days.
12:17 - richard seltzer
Ron -- Yes, it's a tough time for programmers. How are things at
Ebay? Are you still selling computer and camera related gear (new
12:19 - Ron Rothenberg
things are pretty good at ebay -- lots of people buying stuff, and
lots of surplus available, since it's not selling in the stores.
Selling mostly video cards and accessories.
12:22 - richard seltzer
Ron -- interesting. I'll have to dive in at ebay again soon myself.
Meanwhile, do you see any possibilities for yourself in the realm
of P2P or content syndication?
12:43 - richard seltzer
Welcome, Doris, please introduce yourself and let us know your
interests. We have about 15 minutes left to go, with Arnaud Fischer
here to field questions about Yaga.
12:46 - doris
Sorry I arrived so late. I'm still having time problems...thought
this was supposed to start in fifteen minutes, not end
12:47 - richard seltzer (Re: 12:46 - doris 'Sorry I arrived so late.
I'm still having time...')
Doris -- Sorry -- we're on daylight savings time this week. Will be
going back to standard time soon. For now this is GMT -4. When on
standard time it will be GMT -5.
12:01 - richard seltzer
I was amazed by the recent changes at Yaga. It isn't often that a
new company so completely redesigns and redefines itself. I'm very
interested in learning more. In its first design, Yaga reminded me of Napster -- except with
many different kinds of content, not just music. Now it looks very
different. Can you tell us about the changes and the reasons behind
12:01 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Yaga has developed and lanuched a digital marketplace, where
content providers can upload and submit files of any types, and
subscribers can download videos, images, ebooks, software and so
12:03 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Yaga has experiemented for many months, not only on the technology
front, including Search and P2P file sharing, but also trying to
understand where we could really contribute to content delivery,
and provide a great experience for players and actors doing so. We
did make a number or improvements to the service, the technology
reliability, and busines model in the past weeks and months.
12:04 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
We did start with a form of close to pure peer-to-peer file sharing
model, trying to understand how to increase efficiency of
delivering content across network. A little bit like Napster, but
always wanted to remain on the Content Creators and Owners' sides,
not facilitating sharing of illegitimate content.
12:05 - richard seltzer
It feels like your service is a merger of three technologies --
P2P, search and also micropayments (with MagnaCash). Can you tell
us something about MagnaCash and how and why you have integrated it
into your service?
12:06 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- I'd guess that your early P2P experiment probably taught
you a lot about customer interests and behavior. How many users did
you get? And how many files did they download over that period? (Or
do you have any way of knowing that?)
12:07 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
The business model is very interesting. Content providers and
owners can upload files to the digital marketplace for free, and
earn money based on how successful their content is. Yaga makes
money by charging a subscription fee for end-users to downlaod
videos, ebooks, music, and content of any type.
12:08 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- I believe that Yaga's experience involves several very
interesting business models. For instance, your new version feels
like a new form of content syndication. Can you explain a little
more about the payment system works? If I upload a file to Yaga and
if people download it, how much will I be paid? and how?
12:08 - hibbs pc
I went to your site and could not figure that out...suppose I have
alecture series. would I post to you? walk me through that please
12:08 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
What makes the model interesting, is that content providers do get
paid to distribute content online, as should be, and end-users can
also earn credits for being part of the transport layer or network,
by sharing content they download, thus decreasing bandwidth costs
for all. This is where the P2P technology does a very good job.
12:10 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
The Yaga Digital Market place is definitely an integrated solution
bringing in the best of Search, P2P, Small payment and lots of
security technology as well. We entered into an agreement with
AltaVista last week for the search technology, and using in-house
technology for security such as file fingerprinting, making sure
that content is legitimate and legal.
12:11 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- I get the sense that what we see today is just an interim
version of what you are aiming for. Last month, your service
operated as a pure P2P play. Today, content owners upload files to
your servers, rather than making them available from their PCs. Now
from what you say, I get the sense that you will be moving back to
P2P, with rewards for people who make files that they got through
Yaga available for others to download from their PCs. Is that
correct? If so, how far off is that next stage (back to P2P)?
12:11 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
As for the payment part; processing ttransactions can be very
costly as the amounds decrease. Yaga acquired MagnaCash a few
months ago to help with roiyalty and affiliate accounting support.
Making sure all the contributors get paid is key in the content
space, including content owners, distributors, aggregators, and so
forth ... and can become very complex if not tracked correctly.
12:14 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
The P2P component is definitely key. We are refining the technology
right now to integrate it to the new digital marketplace paradygme
... and will be back integrated to the download process in a few
days. This said, P2P needs not to be an end-goal per say. P2P is a
veru interesting technology layer as Search can be, helping
navigation and information retrieval. P2P technology needs to be
wrapped around the resolution of a real business solution. This is
why you see so much consolidation in that space these days, and
other companies just having a hard time making revenues. Not the
case here, though ;-)
12:17 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
The way Yaga will be re-integrating the P2P technology to the
content delivery process will remain the same as the previous
implementation: downloading a file will be directed to the most
efficient download sources; users will be able to downlaod file
segments in parallel from many sources, and the technology
reassembles the total file at arrival, making sure file integrity
ahas be enforced. What is really new, here, is that yaga is
planning on rewarding p2p sharing users for facilitating the
transport of content across the network.
12:18 - richard seltzer
To reward P2P sharing, you will have to be able to keep track of
it. That sounds like a major technological breakthrough. Can you
actually do that?
12:10 - hibbs pc
limewire allows mac users to easily enter a search for
some music...lime wire finds that music which sits on hard drives -
I think 20 million of them and then offers you the choice which
music you want to play...all free?
12:11 - hibbs pc
Sherlock is apple's portal to many search engines ..you click boxes
(once) like yahoo, etc. and then "Sherlock" searches all the
engines wkth a small blub about each one so you don't have to go to
the site if it does not match.
12:12 - richard seltzer
John -- Limewire as you describe it sound very much like Napster.
Music only, and subject to lots of hassle from the music industry.
Yaga deals with all kinds of files and has a method for paying the
12:13 - hibbs pc
ya, lime wire just like napster. not sure how legal, though one
would wonder why apple would touch it if not driven snow pure.
12:14 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- This is a very good time for getting into content
syndication. The king -- iSyndicate recently died. And the
bush-league amateur versions -- themestream and thevines, which
shared advertising revenue -- also went under. I'm very interested
in seeing if I can make money sharing content through Yaga.
12:14 - hibbs pc
Arnaud, would you walk me through this...I have a lecture seriese I
want people to pay to listen to...withh related web pages. What do
I do with you?
12:18 - hibbs pc
(Hope you can walk me through how to get paid for lectures?)
12:20 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Hibbs, for the moment, Yaga supports mostly a download subscription
model, and definitely looking at expanding into the streaming and
pay-per-use arena. As far as Distance Learning is concerned, you
could for example upload class notes, videos, and other digital
material to the Network, and point your users to download the
content. You can manage than content, adding new classes week after
week. The benefit for you is that i) you get paid for every
download, ii) you distribute the bandwidth cost among many,
although I suspect this is not your point of pain.
12:23 - hibbs pc
I wonder if your plans would make room for an ebroker of education,
like me? for example, I could reach out to dozens of course
providers to get them to yaga...but how would I get paid? what
service could I do besidese be an intrductory agent?
12:16 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- I was signed up for the earlier version of Yaga. I
downloaded the software. My 12-year-old son had lots of fun finding
and downloading files of all kinds related to the TV shows he
likes. Now that old content appears to have disappeared. Should I
delete the old software from my system? Or will your new solution
use that as well?
12:22 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Richard: You son should not delete the old software as we are going
to upgrade it in a few days, making sure your household gets
rewarded for every MB transfered with your help. The role of the
software will be minimized, though, making it it a bit more
seamless, and trasnparent. To increase reach and accessibility, we
have been moving most of the functionality to the web, such as
searching for TV episodes and so forth.
12:24 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Richard: rewarding P2P sharing is definitely very complex. This is
where the MagnaCash technology Yaga acquired a few months ago
enters into play. MagnaCash handles royalty accounting, small
payment transaction at a very efficient processing cost, and
overall tracking at a micro level, including logging how many MB of
content can be transported through your son's computer using Yaga's
p2p sharing software. We think this will be a very successfull
12:26 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Richard, in regard to categorization, we definitely have a few
ajustments to make, and should take place today. We will be
extending the number of categories, making sure content providers
feel confortable submitting digital content to the right place
where users can easily find it.
12:27 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- I'm glad the categories will be changing. And I'd
certainly welcome a subcategory of Other under ebooks and also
welcome seeing "ebooks" changed to something more generic like
"Text). Should I wait until after that change to upload my content?
12:38 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Richard: we are very quickly learning about the success of the
eBook category, and definitely need to expand it quickly. Overall,
taxonomy will certainly present the same challenges companies like
Looksmart or the Open Directory Project have faced. The goal is to
keep the navigation as simple as we can, and appeal to the most
common denominator, yet making it easy to find very specific
content. Definitely a challenge.
12:29 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Richard: subscribers are definitely not limited in terms of how
many downloads they can get right now. We definitely want to expand
the spectrum of content avaialble on the network, though, and don't
esclude providing support for a Pay-per-download model for very
specific, high value content. I think eBook downloads, for example,
would work better in a pay-per-download model simply because this
is the way readers are used to, going into a book store, and buying
books one at a time. The business model is also very much driven by
content creators, owners, and distributors.
12:31 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- I disagree with regard to ebooks, unless you mean that
term in the very limited sense of texts in special formats intended
for "ebook readers" (like .lit). Text files in general (including
articles, excerpts, course content -- everything, including books
that aren't in special format) should probably be treated just like
your other files. Keep it simple.
12:33 - Ron Rothenberg
pay per download is a problematic model, from a sales standpoint.
YOu force people to make a buying decision every time they want
something, versus the AOL model, where you get a bundle of services
for a fixed monthly charge.
12:33 - Ron Rothenberg
pay-per-usage is just annoying - i think people prefer
12:34 - hibbs pc
mmmm....Ron, subscriptions are ok if you are sure what is
coming..hot rod magazine for dragsters
12:35 - richard seltzer
Ron -- I agree the subscription payment rather than paying per
download to me looks like a great innovation. I'd like to see how
well it works, what kinds of payouts results. It's like unlimited
Internet access as opposed to metered -- the model changes
behavior; you are no longer constrained, feel freer to experiment
and learn and benefit.
12:43 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Ron, the pay-per-download definitely appeals to different types of
content and users. I think the Subscription service, all you can
downlaod, is great, but some content owners, labels and otherwise
just want to charge more for their content than what Yaga is
willing to charge users on a monthly basis. THink of it as the
cable model: there is the basic service, premium channels, and then
12:44 - richard seltzer (Re: 12:43 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product
marketing) 'Ron, the pay-per-download definitely appeals to different
types of content...')
Good explanation. Thanks. Looks like you are starting with the
"basic service" -- just subscription. About how far off are the
other models? A month? Six months? A year?
12:26 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- So members have two ways to earn -- making files they get
from Yaga available for others to get, and also uploading their own
content to Yaga. (Or in the new mode, will they ever need to
upload? Or will they simply need to sign up at Yaga and make the
files available P2P style from their PCs?)
12:29 - richard seltzer
John -- If you have a file that you update on your PC and maybe on
your Web site often, you won't want to have to keep going back to
Yaga to upload the latest version. Just point Yaga to the right
file name on your PC and the latest version will always to
available. Also, if you have hundreds of thousands of files that
you'd like to share, you might want to point Yaga to the directory
rather than uploading them individually. Arnaud -- will that work?
12:35 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Richard: Content managment and freshness is definitely an immense
benefit of peer-to-peer file sharing and the Yaga Digital
Marketplace. Giving content providers control over the submission
and freshness of their goods is key. Traditional search engines
have been having difficulties with this in the past. Webmasters
submit their sites, and have to wait for a while before seing it in
search engine index ... updating that content is also cumbersome.
Yaga has fixed this challenge by reflecting in real time content
submited, and allowing providers to change description, update
files on the fly. Great benefit from p2p technology.
12:36 - richard seltzer
Arnaud in your 12:35 posting, do you mean that in the future model
files will reside on the content providers' machines and hence will
always be the updated version? Or will we have to upload the new
12:34 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- Yes, I love your model for paying content providers. This
is very different from the online "publishers" who are really
nothing more than vanity publishers (like Vantage), charging people
to put their books on the Web and then nobody ever sees/reads them.
12:33 - hibbs pc
so, how can I get paid if I go out to the elearning crowd and tell
them to upload to you? us middlemen get killed by the net...no
hiding your resources!
12:43 - hibbs pc
Arnaud, since you have a content acquisition team, maybe you would
like to make me a member of that team? How would I get paid?
12:43 - hibbs pc
Arnaud, since you have a content acquisition team, maybe you would
like to make me a member of that team? How would I get paid?
12:46 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Hibbs: we have a channel program where content specialists help us
acquire content in specific areas. Since Yaga cannot talk to every
single providers individually we developed this self service,
automated way for anybody with legitimate content to upload their
files. We also want to make sure we are getting high quality
content that end-users are willing to pay a subscription fee for. I
would be more than happy to take this off-line with you and discuss
12:39 - hibbs pc
So, how can I find the Afghan lecturer? at Yaga?
12:40 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- since search -- sophisticated, fast, useful search -- is
an important part of your solution, I'd think that text files (as
opposed to ebooks) would be very important -- files in formats that
can be well indexed (as opposed to pdf and ebook specific formats).
12:41 - hibbs pc
Isnt the central problem for Yaga is to make sure that peoople who
want content will know to go there?
12:55 - hibbs pc
but what are the chances, Arnaud, --- at least for a long time -
of Joe Smith finding the lecture about Afganistatn at yaga?
13:06 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Hibbs: I think that finding the right information is definitely
challenging, wherever you are on the web, ... even on Google to
some extent. Once users are on www.yaga.com, we have integrate the
AltaVista search egnine technology to make it esier. As far as
users not on the service, we want to encourage content providers
and owners to market their own content as welkl, and will be
providing tools to do so. The Custom search box you can paste on
your site is one way, seting up Yaga Access is another one. We are
also looking at deploying a tool that will allow content
contributors to send emails to their users and point them to the
doanload location of the content, and even to a Publisher profile
page, where specific content can be found.
12:52 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Hibbs: how do people find Yaga? http://www.yaga.com. I think that
if we can deliver a high value service to many users and
publishers, people will find us. eBay, Google, and many others, if
not everybody, faced that challenge. We need to get the word out.
We also have a great affiliate program including a couple of
i) You can sign up for Yaga Access, basically setting
up a login box for your site, moving content behind a
"subscription" wall. Users need to subscribe to get access, third
party web sites get paid based on how many new users they subscribe
to the service ... same one as the digital marketplace.
also can go to www.yaga.com, copy and paste a custom search box for
your site, allowing your users to search exclusivey on the files
you are sharing, again driving traffic both ways, and rewarding
content owners. We are doing all the traditional marketing
deployment: direct email and so forth.
12:42 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- How far off is your "bulk publishing" model? Should I
bother to upload files today if next week I might be able to simply
point Yaga to a directory at my site or on my PC? And in the bulk
mode, how do you get the descriptions? (first lines of text, like
with search engines?)
12:57 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Yaga Access is the "Subscription wall". In a nutshell, we are
facilitating third party web sites to move their valuable content
behind a login box, and get paid for driving usage. The overall web
is moving toward ways of generating money with web sites, simply
because free stuff just does not cut it from a business model
standpoint, and advertising revenues have not been what many
expected. You can simply go to http://www.yaga.com, join the
service, enter your web site url and categorize the type of content
you host. Yaga will generate on the fly some HTML code that you can
past. Yaga subscribers only are able to login and enjoy the
content. Non-subscribers have to sign up for an idea. Web sites
make money by refering new users, I think one of the highest
commissions around, in the $11 range.
12:58 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- that "subscription wall" thing sounds interesting. But
I'm still unclear about it and I know that the info at your Web
site is much less clear than what you just said here. How can I
12:59 - hibbs pc
i agree...with richard. I learned more at 12:57 than on the yaga
13:02 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Richard: we are making improvements to the site every day, and will
make sure the Subscription wall service gets better communicated. I
also think this is a brand new model, requiring a bit more work to
understand than simply searching for a file and downloading it ;-)
13:03 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- one thing that's difficult for me to understand with
regard to "subscripton wall" -- why should a WEb site want to have
a section that can only be found and accessed by way of Yaga?
Sounds very limiting (unless or until you have tens of millions of
users at Yaga, using Yaga as a search engine.
13:09 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Yaga Access is key in turning content and web sites into money
making operations. I find it painful each time I see a web site
with great content going under simply because they do need money to
kepp the operation running. Very often, though, it's difficult to
setup a mnerchant account, or the content of a sole web site is not
enough to jsutify a fee for users to access. By aggregating these
sites into a Network, and not requiring Merchant accounts, we hope
Yaga can help these sites stay up and runniong, and make money.
12:53 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- please explain this "subscription wall" thing. I didn't
at all understand that at your site.
12:54 - richard seltzer
Normally, with an affiliate program, you just put a message/link/ad
on your site and get paid is people act on it (by click-through or
purchase). What's this business about putting content behind a
"subscription wall". What content? Whose content? Your own content?
12:55 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- also, today, it's very difficult to sign up for that
affiliate program of yours because you need to fill out a form that
insists that you conform to your current categories and
sub-categories. (e.g., Science Fiction, but not Business).
12:57 - hibbs pc
As I understand it, content providers upload their stuff to Yaga,
with a price for same. Yaga distributese this content after
collecting micro payments; the beauty to the content provider is
one more (movie house) where customers can view the content and pay
13:00 - Arnaud Fischer (Yaga product marketing)
Richard: providing p2p infrastructure to schools and other
enterprises is definitely on our map. Fundamentally, we want to
make sure the technology and infrastruture scales and performs
well, testing it on ourselves first in some regards. Yaga is also a
small company, less than 40 employes, and have to remain focused on
doing fewer things very very well. Our focus has been on the
Digital Marketplace for now, and mroe than happy to hear of
opportunities to extend that technology to third party
13:19 - richard seltzer
Thanks again, Arnaud. Are you still there? One remaining question
is the one about Macintosh. Can Mac folks download files? Can they
contribute content? And if so, shouldn't content be labelled as to
whether it is formatted for Mac or PC?
12:50 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- If Mac users can use your service (can they?) should you
mark your files as to which work on PCs and which on Mac?
12:46 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- I understand that your underlying technology is far more
flexible and powerful than your current model may indicate. I
believe that you can handle any file type, not just the types
listed in your current "categories." For instance, someone could
deliver a course through HorizonLive and make the archive of that
multi-media presentation available for download (subscription,
pay-per-view or whatever) through Yaga. Is that in fact the case?
12:51 - richard seltzer
Arnaud -- Also is there a limit on the size of files? (It's easy to
generate a 500 Meg tiff from a simple still photograph with a
scanner. Start adding video and audio and multi-media (a la
HorizonLive) and you could get some humongous files.
12:51 - PeteVH
Could an institution, like a university, get a license to place
files and have access by students, without charge to the student,
for say a semester?
12:52 - richard seltzer
Pete -- sounds like a good business model. Arnaud -- have you
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