BUSINESS ON THE WORLD WIDE WEB:
where "word of keystroke" begins
August 23, 2001 -- Summary of text-chat platforms tested
Transcript of the live chat session that took place Thursday, August 23,
2001. These sessions are normally scheduled for 12 noon-1 PM US Eastern
Time (Standard Time = GMT -5, Daylight Savings Time = GMT -4) on Thursdays.
To connect to the chat room, go to www.samizdat.com/chat-intro.html
Since the chat itself happens at a rapid pace, it's often difficult
to note interesting facts and URLs as they appear live. Here's a place
to take a more leisurely look. I've rearranged some of the pieces to try
to capture the various threads of discussion (which sometimes get lost
in the rush of live chat).
Please send email with your follow-on questions and comments, and suggestions
for topics we should focus on in future sessions. So long as the volume
of email responses is manageable, I'll post the most pertinent ones here
for all to see.
These sessions are hosted by Richard Seltzer. If you would like to receive
email reminders about upcoming sessions, please send email to firstname.lastname@example.org
This is one of the longest-running chat programs on the Web. (Please
let us know if you know of ones that are older.) We've been doing this
since June 1996.
In parallel with the chat program, Richard does a 5-minute weekly radio
segment on "The Computer Report," which is heard live on WCAP in Lowell,
Mass., and is syndicated on WBNW in Boston and WPLM in Plymouth, Mass.
He often bases that segment on a recent chat discussion. He will often
truns that segment into a weekly article for posting at this site and for
distribution to other sites through iSyndicate www.isyndicate.com.
For transcripts of previous sessions and a list of future topics, www.samizdat.com/chat.html.
For an article on how to make "business chat" work (based on this experience),
For articles on topics related to this one, check our newsletter, Internet-on-a-Disk
This chat session was run using chatway.com, linked to from Bob Zwick's
Webshare page www.cottagemicro.com/webshare
E-School = Bob Zwick in Texas
Richard Seltzer in Boston
Darrell Voth in Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
Paul-R, in Wales
Jim Klaas working with hispanics in Latin America and working on masters
in distance education at Athabasca University in Canada
John Smith, in Portland
Rita, in Argentina
<seltzer> Bob -- is there a way to make the chat area fill the screen
<E-School> click room top left button - then float
<seltzer> Okay. I'm slow. Now I see that at the bottom of the screen
meaning of the icons appears as I move the cursor.
<E-School> Bear in mind if you FLOAT the chat window - you disconnect
your viewing from the rest of Web Teacher
<seltzer> Do I need to see the rest of WEb Teacher? Will we be doing
everything here? Or do y ou intend to lead us elsewhere
<E-School> Most will be here -
<seltzer> All -- it looks like it's about noon. Shall we get started,
officially, Bob? Would you like to give us a quick summary of what we've
over the last couple months, and the conclusions you've come to?
<seltzer> Also, Darrell, Paul-R, and Jim Klaas, please introduce
yourselves and let us know your interests.
<JimKlaas> Is there sound on this or are we typing
<seltzer> Bob -- this is just text chat (no sound) right?
<E-School> We will be using voice chat form Paltalk simultaneously.
The room there is found under Paltalk-Misecllaneous-E-School
<seltzer> Bob -- Are we supposed to also connect to paltalk? I didn't
know that and hence didn't mention it in the chat
<JohnSmith> What's paltalk? Are we doing introductions now?
<seltzer> Yes, JohnSmith, please introduce yourself. For details
about paltalk see http://www.samizdat.com/paltalk
<seltzer> Bob -- What do you plan to do with paltalk. I see half
people are there, but nothing is happening. I think
we'd be better off in
one place rather than two.
<seltzer> Paltalk is great for one-way. But people need warning
hand -- paltalk requires download, installation,
and fine tuning; and only
a few of the people here today have done that (I
didn't expect this, sorry,
or I would have included that info in the message.
<seltzer> We're doubly confused because Chataway only let's you
after you login. So your previous mentioned of Paltalk
aren't seen by
new people entering the room.
<E-School> YES Richard all conversation will be here
<Paul-R> Hi, this is Paul, from Wales, UK. I'm interested in a range
e-learning technologies, but mainly asynchronous
used chat in a serious way before..
<Darrell> Yes. My name is Darrell Voth and I'm from Kelowna BC,
Canada. I'm an independent business consultant.
My interests are in
distance education and Communications. Interactivity
<JohnSmith> I'm an independent consultant out of Portland. Main
is in communities of practice. I teach an online
workshop with Etienne
Wenger on CoPs that tries to simulate a CoP from
<JimKlaas> My name is Jim Klaas. I am working with Hispanics across
latin America for resourcing in church ministry.
I am also doing a
masters in Distance Education at Athabasca University
<Rita> I'm an EFL teacher in Argentina
I love teaching and using the computer as a tool
Summary of chat rooms tested:
<E-School> I have created a summary document of the chat rooms
we have tested. Go to http://www.cottagemicro.com/webshare
and from the pull down menu in the upper left corner, select "Sample Text
Chat Rooms". <E-School> the Sample Chat document has links to all the
room services we have tested.
<seltzer> Excellent information.
<seltzer> Bob -- I see that all the chat programs you tested were
Java-based. Why? I, for one, hate Java-based chat.
<E-School> Java is most common and free - html requires code on
<seltzer> Main limitations of java-based chat -- you only see the
text posted from the time that you logon, and if you get booted,
you lose all
the old text. Also, it is very awkward trying to
<E-School> With Chatway (which is java-based) to save a copy of
this chat, all you have to do is right click, then copy all.
<E-School> With Chatway you can left click on one or several lines
then RIGHT click to copy only those lines
<seltzer> Bob -- yes, that right click works great. that is definitely
superior to bravenet.
<E-School> there is no Right Ckick on a Mac :(
<JohnSmith> Does the right-click feature work with Netscape? I'm
<E-School> Netscape is not one of my choices, but it may or may
work depending on the version of Netscape.
<seltzer> Bob -- also, I don't see Chatway on your chart -- unless
ChatSpace is the same as Chatway.
<E-School> Yes, ChatSpace is the software creator. Chatway is a
hosted platform using that software.
<JohnSmith> I'm curious as to the population you consider in your
survey. I've been using WebCrossing's chat and been pretty satisfied.
It has a
nice facility for saving transcripts.
<seltzer> JohnSmith -- is WebCrossing Java or HTML? How do they
<JohnSmith> Web crossing has both: you can switch, depending on
<E-School> John can you give us a url for WebCrossing ?
<seltzer> JohnSmith -- sounds very interesting. is Web crossing
free? or what does it cost?
<JohnSmith> See worldcrossing.com
for a free version. Of course the free version doesn't let you get
at the transcript. :-( But Web Crossing
IS relatively cheap.
<seltzer> JohnSmith -- how cheap?
<JohnSmith> Seltzer, It's a pretty complicated pricing structure:
see their website at webcrossing.com. They're unusual in that they
thousand pages loaded, so you can use the same software
that Oprah and CNN use, but they pay WAY more.
<Darrell> Does world crossing support voice?
<JohnSmith> Darrell, No, but there's a fellow that's doing some
kind of voice add-on. He was at the roi.webcrossing.com conference
<Darrell> Any category on room size?
<E-School> Room size varies. Parachat & Multicity are unlimited.
Chatwat = 1,050 users 20/month
<ajl> What is the difference between Visitor signup Req. and Visitor
<seltzer> Bob -- I thought bravenet was quite good (see
previous transcript). In what ways do you believe Chatway is superior?
<E-School> Better hot links, admin, web tour to individuals
and more make this superior
<seltzer> Bob can you demonstrate those capabilities -- e.g., how
can you do hot links and do a web tour for an individual or for a group?
<seltzer> Bob -- also what admin features do you like? (what is
there? these are probably invisible unless your created the room).
<E-School> Richard - all of the www..... urls type are HOT
Web Tour or PUSH is only one on one
<E-School> You don't even need the http
<seltzer> Bob -- thanks. is the Web tour different? or do you just
<E-School> the web tour sends a url to ONE person and they
have the option of opening it or not
<E-School> to see the admin click the 2nd button at the top of the
<seltzer> Bob -- you also indicate that there is "auto-logging"
here. I presume that means a handy way to save the transcript. How do you
that? Where can we find that command? And does it
only log from the moment when you connect?
<E-School> I chose to make that a requirement - it is not necessary
<E-School> any java room only shows you the text in the chat area
after you enter the room
<seltzer> What about the autologging? How do you activate that?
and can anyone do so or just the admin?
<seltzer> Bob -- how much does it cost to sign up for a room that
would have autologging?
<E-School> auto logging is avail in the paid room and will save
up to two days of transcripts for cutting and pasting
<JohnSmith> I think autologging is pretty essential. That's
one reason to NOT use the YahooGroups chat rooms for real work: you have
a ton of time making notes from the java applet
& if it crashes, you've lost everything.
<seltzer> JohnSmith -- I agree completely. That's why I normally
use SiteScape (HTML).
<seltzer> Bob -- what is the charge for that autologging service?
<E-School> John - auto is a premium service. as long as you stay
connected in this room you can easily copy the transcript.
<seltzer> Bob -- for me, the inability to see text typed before
you entered is a killer weakness. For my own purposes, I really couldn't
use such a
chat (which means Java is out). You wind up having
to explain the same things over and over. And it is very confusing for
arrive late (and most people arrive late).
<JohnSmith> I guess it's a matter of scale that interacts with your
0<JohnSmith> I took a good workshop on facilitating chat and they
had some work-arounds for that. Like assigning different roles. Someone
actually greets people who show up late and sends
them a private message orienting them.
<seltzer> JohnSmith -- those workarounds sound very tedious. Especially
when you are running a session alone. I much much prefer HTML chat.
<seltzer> Bob -- do you know the price of the autologging at chatway?
<iesi> What are the added features you have built into the Web Teacher
<E-School> We highly recommend IE and PC for using Web Teacher so
all added features work as designed.
<JohnSmith> Are there other resources with similar tabulations that
people know about?
<E-School> John we''l talk about the added features in just a
<seltzer> JohnSmith -- next week, I'll be returning to SiteScape
for my Thursday chat (about being found by search engines). That will give
an opportunity to see how SiteScape works. I'll
include the URL in my chat reminder notice and in my chat intro page
<seltzer> Bob -- thinking of the need of Global Learn Day -- I'd
think that the ability to see previous messages entered would be critical.
isn't on the chart and none of the chats evaluated
let you do that (all being Java).
<E-School> GLD we will archive 15 min transcript segments on the
<seltzer> Bob -- posting 15 minute archive segments sounds very
tedious, and it would sure leave me confused.
<E-School> I've automated it - remember I'm a software developer
Added features at Bob Zwick's Web Teacher page
<E-School> Richard - if we are ready I'll quickly go over the added
features of Web Teacher
<seltzer> Bob -- yes please do go through those.
<E-School> Frame slider - the two red arrows on the top left and
right side of the screen
<seltzer> Yes, the frame slider is neat.
<E-School> LINK icon displays the last URL pushed by the presenter
<E-School> Screen shots sent by presenter
<E-School> a class Email Account for students
<E-School> presenter's web cam which opens in a separate small floating
<E-School> Contact page for the school, instructors and presenters
<E-School> A Class/School calendar for schedules
<JohnSmith> How does the "notepad" thing work? I tried it
and the text I entered seemed to get lost.
<E-School> John the notepad keeps personal notes in a cookie on
the students pc. They reappear any time you return here and can be printed
<JohnSmith> When I tried to "print" i didn't get anything.
Just an image of the window.
<E-School> John - IE only are you using NS ?
<seltzer> Okay, I see that the icon with the notebook feature is
the notebook. Do I have to do anything to save what I put there? Or is
automatically saved and is it available again when
I return here?
<JohnSmith> Using IE. The notes I typed ARE there. Just didn't
see. Should use the good eye, eh?
<E-School> It is automatically saved when you click add the note
<E-School> HELP page with alternate LIVE help for anyone with questions
<seltzer> Bob -- okay. I click record, I see it's saved and I can
print the full page.
<E-School> We use Human Click as a LIVE assistance feature in the
HELP screen for people who are having troubles and need personal attention.
<E-School> The "Enter Shared URLS box at the top right is for people
who want to looks at links in or out of web teacher. It allows you to open
new pages or keepp them in the web teacher page
<JohnSmith> I've got to go. Many thanks. This was a
good session. More about me and what I and some others in the communities
practice area do at www.teleport.com/~smithjd
Previous transcripts and schedule of upcoming chats -- www.samizdat.com/chat.html
To connect to the chat room, go to www.samizdat.com/chat-intro.html
This site is Published by B&R Samizdat Express, 33 Gould St., West Roxbury, MA 02132. (617) 469-2269. email@example.com
The full text of Richard Seltzer's books The Social Web,
Charge of Your Web Site, Shop Online the Lazy Way, and
Way of the Web, plus more than a hundred related articles are available
on CD ROM My
Internet: a Personal View of Internet Business Opportunities.
Business Boot Camp: Hands-on Internet lessons for manager, entrepreneurs,
and professionals by Richard Seltzer (Wiley, 2002).
No-nonsense guide targets activities that anyone can perform to achieve
online business success.
library for the price of a book.
Return to B&R Samizdat Express