Transcript of the live chat session that took place Thursday, July 13, 2000. These sessions are normally scheduled for 12 noon-1 PM US Eastern Daylight Time (GMT -4) every Thursday.
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Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Scott. We'll be starting in about 15 minutes.
Scott -- OK, thanks Richard!
Jeffrey Thomas -- I'm here. Hello? Anybody? This is spooky.
Richard Seltzer -- Hello, Jeff. Glad to "see" you. We'll be starting in a few minutes.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Hello everyone. I'm Bob Zwick an independent consultant and software developer in Dalas, Texas. Jeff - speak about spooky, I just visited your sitet - WOW
Richard Seltzer -- All -- it's about time to start. Please introduce yourselves and let us know your interests. That will get us off to a quick start.
Jeffrey Thomas -- I'm Jeffrey Thomas. My interest is talking about myself and my new book PUNKTOWN. That's about it.
Scott -- Hi folks, it's me, Scott, brother of Jeffrey. Just had to dash downstairs to nuke some leftover dilkies.
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome Scott, do you also write and publish fiction?
Scott -- Yes, Richard, I too write. Like Jeffrey, I focus on horror/fantasy.
Richard Seltzer -- Scott -- Where on the Web can we see your work? And how would you compare your approach to Jeff's? My impression is that for Jeff the setting is just background, rather than subject. The bizarre settings lead to conflicts that push our notions of honor, love, etc. to an extreme that we probably never considered before. Are you playing in that ballpark too?
Scott -- Well, I don't have anything on the web at the moment. In terms of my approach, Jeffrey's writing has always inspired me, but we have distinctly different styles.
Scott -- While I don't have a book ready for this Readercon, Delirium Books will be putting out a hardcover collection of my stuff in the near future.
Richard Seltzer -- Scott -- Does Delirium have a Web site? And do they publish traditionally (bulk print run) or electronically (ebook and print on demand)?
Scott -- Yes, Delirium has a web site -- I forget the exact URL. They publish lovely hardcovers, like Jeffrey's great collection of horror: TERROR INCOGNITA.
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Marc, please introduce yourself and let us know your interests.
Marc Nottke -- Hello everyone, I'm Marc Nottke - creator of the Punktown subsite accessible through the Ministry of Whimsy Press' (the book's publisher) site: www.mindspring.com/~toones/ministry.htm
Jeffrey Thomas -- Hi, Marc. Everyone must check out Marc's Punktown subsite at the Ministry of Whimsy Press -- it's amazing.
craig -- Jeff, Your baby brother says Hi!
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Craig. Do you write and publish fantasy/scifi/horror too? Are there any more in your family? :-)
craig -- No, Jeff and Scott are the 2 masters of the horror genre!
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff, Scott, and Craig -- Halloween must have been fun at your house. Were you into creative do-it-yourself costumes? (FYI -- check my old Halloween article at www.samizdat.com/hallow.html
Jeffrey Thomas -- Ohh -- I'll have to see your Halloween site! Halloween is THE THomas holiday. Best time of the year. My sister and I make an exodux each year to Salem, MA, which at Halloween is like Mardi Gras!
craig -- I made a great nun :)
Scott -- The Thomas Clan sure does resonate to Halloween. I remember setting up the cellar to be a walk-through spook house.
craig -- That was back in '79 and the body (yes, an effigy) hanging from the rafters was just taken down this summer!
Jeffrey Thomas -- I've been writing stories set in Punktown for about twenty years, though it's only fairly recently they've been published. A few others have appeared outside of this collection, and I certainly plan on writing more of them. It's a setting I'm comfortable with. Putting all these stories in one place would be an undertaking, but fun!
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff -- What holds you back from putting all the stories in one place? Especially with the ones written long ago and never before published, what constrains you? Why not just put them at your own site?
Jeffrey Thomas -- It would be hard to put all my stories in one place just because the bulk of my Punktown writing (I have numerous novels) are written by hand! And I'm a terrible typist -- typing with one finger now. My wife had to retype half the stories in the book for me. Typing up all my old stuff would be a bit overwhelming...sad to say!
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff -- That's a unique excuse :-) Get your wife to work on this. Don't let the stuff gather dust. Web space is often free these days. And you don't need to do anything fancy. You can convert from Word to HTML with a single click. Go for it. (Now you know what to do with your summer vacation :-)
Scott -- Hey, Jeffrey, who would you say is your favorite Punktown character in the Whimsy collection, or in ALL the P-Town things you've done?
Jeffrey Thomas -- Scott - favorite Punktown character? Hm, not sure I could even pick one from this collection. I find Magnesium Jones, in IMMOLATION, to be one of the most interesting.
Richard Seltzer -- Yes, Jeff - can you quickly describe the Punktown world, for those who haven't visited it yet?
Jeffrey Thomas -- Punktown is a nickname for Paxton. It's a colony established by Earth on a planet they call Oasis. The indigneous people, the Choom, had a smaller city on the site that Punktown has since swallowed up. Punktown's a sprawling urban landscape with an infamous crime problem. I try to make it almost hallucinatory in mood. A lot of aliens, extradimensional beings, clones and robots interact with the humans, who've been there for generations now. It's a setting that's very open for many different tales. I generally do not reuse the characters I focus on.
Jeffrey Thomas -- Horror always vied with SF for my attention, so in PUNKTOWN I've sort of combined the two. Along with whatever else inspires me. Often more inspired, writing PUNKTOWN, by Thomas Hardy and Yukio Mishima than genre writers.
Scott -- Here's a little-known fact...there are Punktown movies! Yep. No Punktown on Ice, yet, but when younger, the Thomas Brothers made video black and white P-Town stories. Aliens, guns, blood.
Jeffrey Thomas -- Why the name? Sounds cool, I guess. Sort of like Metropolitan (that could be author Jeff Edmund's site for METRO, I guess). My small press publishes chapbooks for sail through the mail, over the internet and through small distributors. I've published such things as a collection of dark fantasy stories by W. H. Pugmire and the novella THE EARLY HISTORY OF AMBERGRIS by Jeff VanderMeer. Publishing is another creative outlet for me beyond my own writing, and illustrating.
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff -- I was very active in small press publishing about 25 years ago, when cheap offset printing meant that anybody could print anything they wanted, and before we began to realize that "printing" and "publishing" were not synonymous. I had a lot of fun at small press bookfairs in Boston, New York, and Philadelphia. Then the movement sort of died down, or went into hibernation. Seeing small press on the Web today, I feel a bit like Rip Van Winkle. I'm very curious to learn what happened while I was asleep, and how the small press today is using the Web.
Jeffrey Thomas -- Richard, you asked what's happened to the small press. Jeez...with PCs, the quality of these projects has dramatically improved. I pasted up my early small press projects page by page on a light box. Still do, to an extent, because I'm comfortable with that, as a former paste up artist. Another major change in the small press is electronic magazines. A lot of small publishers find that route easier for them, due to the high costs of paper and printing.
Richard Seltzer -- Marc -- You probably have a lot of fun with the graphics as well as the text. I'm surprised not to find more sites that are devoted to particular fantasy worlds. Punktown for one -- with everything related to it, including fan interaction. Jeff VanderMeer's Ambergris for another. The problem is that many of these interrelated works were print published by very small publishing companies and are almost impossible for the ordinary person to track down. It would be great to see, read, experience them all together on the Web. do you see any barriers to making that happen. (It isn't like the authors expect to make a fortune by selling print copies, and in any case, a good fan-related site should increase sales.)
Marc Nottke -- Richard -- In response to your earlier question: Creating a website devoted to many small presses and lesser known artists would be a massive undertaking, but one that might prove very fruitfull to writers, publishers, and fans of specific types of storytelling. I'm not sure if such a place exists, but say someone could go to www.smallpress.com - pick a genre s/he liked and then take a look at some press releases, reviews, and writing samples. It would be a great way to find out about the great, but obscure literature being produced today. The site might even be able to pay for itself and generate some revenue through small publishers paying small advertising fees. I think the potential for such a website is great - if it dosen't, in fact, exist somewhere already.
Richard Seltzer -- Marc -- I suspect that there's lots of good small press material on the Web today, but it's scattered hither and thither, and only a few folks in "the know" could find it. While doing this for all of small press would be a massive undertaking, I could easily see doing it writer by writer (instead of the way it tends to be now, which is publisher by publisher), so you can see an author's complete works in one place, or at least the works set in a single fantasy realm.
Jeffrey Thomas -- I'd really love to see Jeff VanderMeer come up with an Ambergris web site. By the way, I've created my own Punktown-based web site called PUNKTOWN CITY LIMITS. There are 3 very short stories there that are not in the book, plus a number of Punktown "photo galleries" I've come up with. That URL_ is msnhomepages.talkcity.com/TimesSquare/necropolitan/index.html
Richard Seltzer -- All -- has anyone put together a "Guide to Web-based fantasy worlds" site? Just a page with lots of links and associated explanations -- somewhere I could check to get links to all the Punktown stuff and/or all the stuff by Jeff Thomas or Scott Thomas or Craig Thomas, etc.
Jeffrey Thomas -- A Fantasy World site would be great! you could have everything from Bradbury's (or Burroughs') Mars to Oz to Lovecraft's Arkham.
Scott -- Jeffrey, it is always exciting to see what goodies have been added to your PUNKTOWN CITY LIMITS site. What can we anticipate in future?
Jeffrey Thomas -- At my PUNKTOWN CITY LIMITS site I'm currently working on a page to promote MONSTROCITY, which as I say is still in the works. I hope to add more galleries, more stories, and more weird sounds to it. And there's a picture of brother Scott at the site, in the role of "Tet Theremin", people!
Scott -- Oh yes, THAT picture. The machinegun is merely a replica folks. I was more geeky then -- the beard adds character.
Jeffrey Thomas -- For PUNKTOWN CITY LIMITS, I picked the oddest photos from my collection and made up odd little stories to go with them, to make them Punktown snapshots. I've also worked on some of the photos to "enhance" them. :^)
Scott -- Speaking of enhanced pictures, Jeffrey's son Colin makes a great Choom! It's a must-see at the CITY LIMITS site.
Jeffrey Thomas -- A lot of well-known SF/fantasy/horror writers will be at Readercon. One of the guests of honor is Michael Moorcock (last year I got to chat briefly with Harlan Ellison). There'll be a dealer's table for Ministry of Whimsy, Buzzcity and Necropolitan Press, and various panels. I hope to be able to do a reading of one of my stories at the least!
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff and Scott -- will your works be for sale at Readercon? (FYI -- check www.readercon.org for details -- is that the right URL, Jeff?)
Jeffrey Thomas -- Richard - yes, I'll be the one manning the Ministry/Buzzcity/Necropolitan table at Readercon. Signing PUNKTOWN, etc.
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff -- So when are you due to read or speak at Readercon? (Last time I looked there wasn't a schedule at their Web site. I snail mailed registrations for myself and my son Mike, but never got a confirmation.)
Jeffrey Thomas -- They're still working out the Readercon activities, Richard. No positive confirmation yet that they'll fit me into the programming. But I'll be there all three days, signing and selling books at the least.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Richard - can you explain what you mean by "print on demand" ?
Richard Seltzer -- Re: print on demand. I was very skeptical until recently. I presumed that the quality would be poor, and the type hard on the eyes. But I just bought and read a new translation of Jaroslav Hasek's "Good Soldier Svejk" at www.1stbooks.com The cost was $10.95. I paid about $3 for shipping. I received the book about 5 days after placing the order at their site. And the book looks and feels and reads like a "quality paperback". It's good stuff.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Typically, today, with print on demand, an online publishing service, like 1stBooks or Xlibris or even Fatbrain, keeps an electronic copy of the book in its files and uses that master copy to generate electronic copies for sale (in a variety of formats and with or without encryption), or as a paper printed copy that is only printed on receipt of the order. (Special printing equipment can do that -- for a quantity of one -- at reasonable cost today). The service might charge a setup fee or might waive that fee is the writer has a track record; and the service splits the revenue of the sale with the writer (the split varies).
Jeffrey Thomas -- Actually, Richard, I'm currently writing a Punktown novel called MONSTROCITY, specifically to sell through a print-on-demand publisher. Yes, it seems like a promising new approach! And I notice books from such POD publishers as Xlibris getting critical attention from respected web sites like SF SITE.
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff -- Technicality -- I don't consider Xlibris or 1stbooks or Fatbrains as "publishers". They don't really do much selection of material, or much of anything to let the world know the works that are there. They feel more like online publishing services that could be used directly by authors or by "traditional" publishers. Which ones did you consider and which did you decide to go with? And what are the terms? (setup fee? split? startup time?)
Jeffrey Thomas -- Yes, Xlibris and those types aren't strictly publishers, as they don't select (or even edit?) the content. I'm considering Xlibris or iUniverse.com. Both have various arrangements to offer. You can choose an option where you can have your book produced and stored at no cost at all, at Xlibris, but if you want more control and creative possibilities, there are various fees.
Marc Nottke -- I think the problem with PODs is that completely new writers don't seem to have a big chance in making any money off of their work. Generally if you're unknown no one will search for your work or your name - and the initial fees you pay PODs to set everything up end up biting you in the kiester.
Richard Seltzer -- Marc -- Yes, the setup fees are a barrier. And as I mentioned, those sites basically do nothing to let the world know your work is there. And also, it is always best, if possible, to bounce your work off professionals -- to write and rewrite and rewrite again, as is normal when working with an editor. I'd think that only established writers could really get full value out of using those online services directly. But small presses could use them to good effect. They could select titles and work with the authors as usual to polish/finish the texts. And they could use their usual means to publicize their works. But instead of investing in print runs, they could post the works at print-on-demand sites. Meanwhile, I'm hoping that with increased competition, those sites will reduce or drop their setup fees.
Jeffrey Thomas -- Marc has a good point about PODs...yeah, they'll set up a beautiful book for you, but who knows it's there? If one is going to go that route, they must really be prepared to publicize themselves in every way possible to get the word out. Create a web site, go to conventions, direct mailings, etc.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Here's some food for thought. How about a site that let's people download a "printer frindly" copy of your book for a nominal fee, like what your split would be for a POD or a little less. All the author would have to do is publicize the site. A site like that could be set up to accept payment and deliver the manuscript.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- That's certainly a possibility. But keep in mind that printing on your local printer typically costs about 5 cents a page, and the look and feel is not likely to be as reader friendly as a paperback, and the print-on-demand book manufacturing systems spit out excellent books, quickly and inexpensively. So printing on your own printer is likely to cost more than the price of a print-on-demand paperback, just for doing the printing. And then you just have an unbound collection of pages, and you probably are asked to pay more beyond that for the right to print it.
Jeffrey Thomas -- That's an idea, Bob. And Richard, you brought up a good point -- PODs will publish anyone with the money. So a beginning writer doesn't learn the ropes, so to speak. Frustrating as it is to bump up against hard-nosed editors with red pens in one fist and rejection slips in the other, there's a lot to be learned from going that route. Using POD, any sort of trash can get published. Just check out the online bookstores at a few of these places. (Shudder.)
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff -- I think it is a matter of definition. In the old days, anyone could take their manuscript to a printer and pay to get it turned into a book. that was costly "vanity" publishing. Typically, a dead end in terms of reaching an audience, but you got a good-looking printed copy of your work to put on your shelves. The online services play that same role. They are not "publishers". Rather they are an alternative to traditional printing.
Jeffrey Thomas -- Richard - good point about the high cost of printing out a book as opposed to getting it in bound form from a POD.
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff and Marc and Scott -- Yes, today it is very hard to find books at the ebook/POD sites. Fatbrain may well have tens of thousands of texts of all sizes, but unless you know the title or author and know that it is at that particular site, there's no way you could find it. Such sites should run internal full-text search engines (such as AltaVista), so when you do a search there, you are searching through every word of every text. They don't do that today. Better still would be if they made all of their text available in plain text or html form and had them indexed at the public search sites, like AltaVista. I post my own works at my own site that way and get them all indexed (especially well at Altavista) and get lots of visitors/readers that way. No money, but how many of you are making money off your fiction today? I believe that the real goal is to build readership/audience, in the hope that eventually that might pay, but simply enjoying an audience and getting valuable feedback.
Jeffrey Thomas -- Richard - not making much money at this. I'm always hoping to see that change, though I write for the same reason that I breathe air. Cuz I'd cease to be, if I didn't!
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff -- Amen. You write because you have to -- not because someone tells you to, or there's money in it, or even because you "want" to. It simply is who you are.
Jeffrey Thomas -- About RealAudio - I haven't looked into that. I'm open to any mode of getting my work out there!
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Richard - as you know I am very interested in the Real Audio aspect since my software eBookIt autmatically incorporates Real Media. Where would one look for a professional narrator or story teller ?
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- My daughter, Heather, who graduated from Sarah Lawrence in drama and dance a year ago, is looking for that kind of work. She lives in New York :-)
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- That's great Richard. Have her contact me. I want to make those type of professionals available at the eBookIt Web Site. The work can be done through telecommuting so it doesn't matter where she lives.
Jeffrey Thomas -- Jeesh, Richard, your family sounds interesting! You told me recently your son Michael is a writer, too. And thanks again for those three books you yourself authored, that you sent me!
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff -- FYI -- my oldest son has a new well-funded Internet startup in Cambridge. www.trenza.com
Jeffrey Thomas -- Yeah, Bob -- I want in on ALL the action! I have some fiction and nonfiction fortcoming in CD-ROM form.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- Absolutely -- every possible medium.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Right-on Jeff. I'm even starting to offer 3" business card sized CD-Rom mastering and distribution.
Richard Seltzer -- All -- before you sign off, please post your email and URL addresses so we can stay in touch. Jeff, see you at Readercon. Thanks again. Great session.
Jeffrey Thomas -- A pleasure speaking with you all at this, my first chat! Take care.
Richard Seltzer -- Jeff -- Now you can't tell me that you've been typing with one finger here in the chat session. So you have no excuse for not keying in all your old Punktown novels and letting the world see them. :-)
Jeffrey Thomas -- Yup, one finger. Didn't you see my typos/misspellings? But yeah, I really must transcribe more of my old Punktown hand-written manuscripts.
Scott -- My e-mail address is wizwagon@prodigy.net. Thanks -- this was fun! Take care y'all!
Jeffrey Thomas -- I'm at necropolitan@email.msn.com. My Necropolitan Press web site is www.necropolitanpress.com. Thanks again!!!
craig -- mine's t_craig@hotmail.com The rest of us are really proud of Jeff and Scott!
Marc Nottke Have
a great afternoon everyone! webmaster@hswc.cc
http://hswc.cc
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