Transcript of the live chat session that took place Thursday, February 17, 2000. These sessions are normally scheduled for 12 noon-1 PM US Eastern Time (GMT -5) every Thursday.
To connect to the chat room, go to www.samizdat.com/chat-intro.html
Since the chat itself happens at a rapid pace, it's often difficult to note interesting facts in particular URLs as they appear on-line. Here's a place to take a more leisurely look. I've rearranged some of the pieces to try to capture the various threads of discussion (which sometimes get lost in the rush of live chat).
Please send email with your follow-on questions and comments, and suggestions for topics we should focus on in future sessions. So long as the volume of email responses is manageable, I'll post the most pertinent ones here for all to see.
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Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Ron, glad you could make it. How is the auction business going these days? Did you get a chance to look at the article at http://www.samizdat.com/news34.html? One of the things that Mark Neely suggested was that auctions might be more "entertaining" if they used avatars. Does that make sense to you? Can you imagine how that might work?
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Hi Ron & Richard Bob in Dallas here.
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Bob. Have you had much experience with virtual worlds and 3D? Have you found 3D shopping apps useful? Can you imagine possible distance ed uses for virtual worlds and 3D (aside from gimmicky stuf -- ways that it could actually improve the learning experience).
Ron DeGray -- Hello
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Peter, lara, and Ron DeGray -- Please introduce yourselves, let us know your interests, and dive in. In particular, what is your take on 3D for business? What sites seem to be good examples of what is possible?
Ron DeGray -- Just a note. I am teaching a course about information networks. The topic today is e-commerce. My class meets at 12:30 hence I will have to log out now but perhaps I will connect again shortly and show my students this e-commerce chat session. Regards,
Richard Seltzer -- Ron DeGray -- do you have a URL? and/or could you give us a brief description? what about this software caught your interest?
Ron DeGray -- I must go to class
now. Would like to stay longer. Saint Joseph College, West Hartford, CT.
The class is Worldwide Information Networks. Would you like to enroll?
:-)
Richard Seltzer -- Mark Neely, in his posting, was dreaming of an online experience that is very close to the face-to-face experience. He hopes to replicate the shopping experience we are currently used to. While I'm very curious about and interested in the possibilities of 3D, that wouldn't be my objective. Rather I'd be looking for creative ways to use 3D that move away from and are more entertaining/useful/fullfilling than the real world experience. Actually, if I were starting a company to work in that area, I would first hire blind programmers. I would want their input, their perspective, their unique ways of conveying experience -- I would want to create a multi-dimensional space/experience that wasn't just spatial.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob -- The bandwidth limitation is likely to change. Already around Boston many folks connect by cable and DSL. I'm using DSL myself now. Also, depending on your design, you could have much of the processing take place locally (on a superfast CPU) to reduce the need for bandwidth. It feels like this is now on the near horizon.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob and Ron -- As you know, I'm a text bigot. I love text on the Web and tend to downplay the role of graphics and fancy effects. But that is largely due to the limitations of bandwidth and processing. It is a practical consideration, trying to focus on what matters most to the visitor. When high bandwidth and high processing speed become commonplace (and that's coming quickly now), the equation changes. I'm curious about the business implications.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Bandwidth is like memory. The more you have the more the vendord make you need. :-) Joking aside, there are probably some efficient ways to deliver motion and semi 3D, like ShockWave or streaming video. My main concern is wether sites use it for a WOW (bells & whistles) or a practical business tool. What examples of 3D have you found.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- From a practical perspective, how costly and time-consuming is it to do an effective 3D tour? What's the price-range of home that it might make sense for? And how does the business model work? Is this an extra, for-a-fee service that the realtor charges for? Or does the realtor do it to help move the house and get the commission? Ron -- the house selling app need not require 3D. I could imagine putting a dozen videocams around a house, and turning them on at certain times of the day when privacy wasn't an issue, and letting potential buyers click to check out the various rooms/views, before deciding to visit in person. Is anyone doing that kind of thing?
Ron Rothenberg -- i think there are service bureaus who are doing it for about $99. One of the competitors in that market conquered the canadian market by linking up with a homewatchers service -- a nationwide network of people who walk you dog, watch your house when you're not there, etc. -- and for $99 CDN, they will film any house, and have a 3d virtual tour in 3 days.
Ron Rothenberg -- most canadian real estate agents complained that it was much too expensive, but it doesn't seem that expensive to me. The Quickcam idea does seem like too much trouble for what you get.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron Rothenberg -- that canadian model sounds very, very good. do you know if they are making money at it? sounds like a business model that could easily be replicated. do you know anyone in the Boston area who is moving in that direction?
Ron Rothenberg -- NO, they
are losing money in canada -- but they've got market share!!!
Bill Wendel may be going into that business -- he has a 3d tour on
his website now, and bought the camera and equipment necessary to do them.
Ron Rothenberg -- with cams, you can't easily move around the house. If someone carries it around, many viewers will get seasick.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Ron - my point exactly! I suppose a 3D tour makes one Real Estate company better that the 2D Photo guy. Before I'd use 3D there would have to be a reason that 2D wouldn't work. Can anyone give an example where a product or service could not be sold in 2D? Repair services is one area where a 3D model of a mechanical assembly might be required. Medical proceedures also required 3D imaging. Why would a shopping mall or store need to be 3D?
Ron Rothenberg -- 3d has a wow factor that 2d lacks.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron Rothenberg -- I agree that having true 3D, done as a sideline by a home security outfit, makes very good sense and certainly adds "wow". And I'd think that with the high commissions for sale of houses over $200K, an investment of $99 sounds like practically nothing.
Ron Rothenberg -- i'm not sure if that's virtual 2d or 3d.
Ron Rothenberg -- real estate agents are traditionally very price sensitive. $99 is a lot of money on a $300K house from their perspective. They don't like to spend, and that's why ANY technology has trouble selling into that market. It's gotta be real cheap. I see many sites where people do it themselves -- walk around the house with a camcorder, than translate it to quicktime or something like that -- there are new mavicas that let you do a few seconds of motion, and manypeople are using that.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- The business model of a security company creating the 3D videos that are then used for selling real estate is intriguing. I can imagine some interesting twists on that. For instance, consider high-priced luxury cars. Insurance companies might well want a complete 3D view of the vehicle as a reference point for future claims. And that same 3D view could be used in trying to resell the car.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- When thinking of the real estate example (which seems to be the best current application), what's the quality? what's the experience? and what's the objective? Is it just "wow"? Is it just an attempt to replicate a walk through? Or can you perhaps show more/show better than a typical walk through?
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- Thinking again about real estate -- I could imagine a 3D presentation that allows the potential buyer to change the color of the paint or the wall paper or to move furniture around, or see what other (their furniture) would look like there -- to experiment with the kinds of modifications that they are interested in making. I'd think that could be much more valuable than a physical walk through.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron Rothenberg -- You mentioned that Bill Wendel plans to do some 3D of homes. Will he be doing that on his own or in partnership with a security company (a la Canada)? If on his own, that is likely to be a rather labor-intensive and expensive proposition. Do you have any idea what he would charge for it?
Ron Rothenberg -- he is talking about starting a service bureau, but I am unsure of his plans.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron Rothenberg -- also, do you know if Bill intends to do just static video-style presentations or if there would be the ability to experiment with different colors and moving furniture in and out, and even moving walls?
Ron Rothenberg -- I think just virtual tours.
Richard Seltzer -- Peter -- re: auctions. I think that would depend very much on the kind of merchandise for sale. It would have to be high-priced and would have to depend very much on visual presentation. Given that, I think it would be an interesting touch. Know of anyone who has tried it yet?
Peter -- Richard -- No, 3D graphic on auctions is just something I want to try. Web commercials that came up last year made me think of it..
Richard Seltzer -- Peter -- There's an interesting free application at AuctionRover (www.auctionrover.com) that let's you create a video-like experience/presentation of your auction items using still digital pictures. If you are curious, send me email to remind me and I'll look it up for you.
Peter -- That would like to see that. Thank you!
Richard Seltzer -- Peter -- I'll poke around and let you know. They just "relaunched" this week, so things are hidden away in new places. In any case, it's an interesting site to visit and use.
Richard Seltzer -- Peter, please tell us about Conoma software. Is it a plug-in? A separate program? Does it work with a browser? Does it smoothly integrate with the Web? Are there any business sites you can point us to that use it today?
Peter -- Yes, Canoma is a seperate software from Metacreations.com. There you will find referal web pages listed as well. Meta stream allows it to work with the web and is included for free.
Richard Seltzer -- Peter -- I'm not familiar with Metacreations or Meta stream. Please tell us more. I presume you have to download software. How big is the file (approximately)? How powerful a PC do you need to run it? and at what bandwidth? what is the experience like? Is it just zoom in and out and manipulate objects? Or is it truly immersive, making you feel like you are there?
Peter -- Regarding the software -- it manipulation of simple geometrics are great. Its more than zooming in and out. Turn in any direction and uses pixelss to apply texture. Remakes of cities. Combine city maps and areal pictures to recreate. I see fantastic engineering use. Expecially in insurance use. Academic stores should have a packaged versions.
Richard Seltzer -- I understand that there are companies which do complete video mapping of streets and highways -- sending trucks with multiple cameras along the roads with precise positioning via satellite and record the condition of every square inch of the road, and the placement of signs, and the potholes -- the works, which is then archived on the web for access by administrators and also by contractors. I could imagine a similar complete mapping of cities (kind of like the genome project) as a basis for a variety of other businesses.
Peter -- The application you are describing is, I believe, more advanced.
Richard Seltzer -- All -- while I think this topic has lots of potential, I doubt that we can continue it contructively next week unless we can recruit a knowledgeable guest, to introduce us to new applications and new possibilities. Any suggestions for a guest? In the absence of such a guest, I'll be looking to start a new topic next week. Suggestions welcome. Please email me at seltzer@samizdat.com
Richard Seltzer -- We're reaching the end of the hour. Please before you sign off, post here your email and URL address so we can keep in touch. As usual, I'll post an edited transcript in a few days. Check http://www.samizdat.com/chat.html Thanks very much for joining us today.
Peter -- Peter, Reddick Equity, Inc., peter@reddick.com, www.reddick.com
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