Our eBay store
My seller's profile at eBay (with all customer feedback)
Transcript of the live chat session that took place Thursday, June 3, 1999. These sessions are normally scheduled for 12 noon-1 PM Eastern Time every Thursday. Please note that the US is now on Daylight Savings Time. So in international terms, we are on at GMT -4.
For Guide to eBay for sellers: practical advice from one seller to another, see www.samizdat.com/ebay.html
Since the chat itself happens at a rapid pace, it's often difficult to note interesting facts in particular URLs as they appear on-line. Here's a place to take a more leisurely look. I've rearranged some of the pieces to try to capture the various threads of discussion (which sometimes get lost in the rush of live chat).
Please send email with your follow-on questions and comments, and suggestions for topics we should focus on in future sessions. So long as the volume of email responses is manageable, I'll post the most pertinent ones here for all to see.
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Our online store at Yahoo
Our eBay
store
My seller's
profile at eBay (with all customer feedback)
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Hello everyone. Bob Zwick, independent consultant in the Dallas, Texas area of the US. I'm excited, but a little intimidated by eBay.
Richard Seltzer -- Hi, Bob Zwick, how are things going? have you had a chance to try selling on Ebay?
Richard Seltzer -- Welcome, Bob Fleischer, have you been able to convince your kids to sell the stuff in the attic at Ebay? (A great summer job).
Ron Rothenberg -- I can only stay a few minutes today, so type fast.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Ron - how long have you been doing eBay ?
Ron Rothenberg -- Bob - about six months.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Ron - How much time do you spend on eBay
in a day or week ?
Is it a full time business for you ?
Ron Rothenberg -- about 50 hours or so - between shipping and setting up auctions. Yes, it is full time++++
Richard Seltzer -- Bob Zwick -- At Ebay, start at the sellers page. Click on add an item. Then just fill everything out (including your password -- you have to have signed up as a member). For photos, you need to have the file sitting on another server -- you just link to it in the product description. Once you have submitted the item, go back to the sellers page, then click on MyEbay and get a view of everything you have on sale or are bidding on. Bookmark your MyEbay page, because your be using it often. (By the way, be especially careful of what you put in the title for your description -- that's the only piece of your submission that is searchable). (Also, you can use HTML markup in the body of the description (bold, line breaks, etc.)
Bob Fleischer -- I
could describe myself as "I'm excited, but a little intimidated by eBay"
as well.
I haven't tried buying or selling yet. I find the search capabilities
a little weak, or perhaps I just don't understand the gestalt, yet. The
categories don't match what I would have picked for categories (which is
my constant problem with categories). I haven't found much evidence yet
of a vibrant market for the kinds of things I have to sell -- but I've
only spent about 20 minutes browsing so far. I do note that they claim
the imminent implementation of a new user interface, so perhaps a lot of
things will be changing, soon
Richard Seltzer -- Bob Fleischer -- The search doesn't have any of the power of an AltaVista. And it is limited to searching for words that appear in the title line. But once you get used to it, it can prove very helpful. I never use their categories (which are massive and non-intuitive. As a seller, it's frustrating, at first, that you can only list your auction in one category at a time. But then you find that most people do navigate by search and you get used to putting the kinds of words there that will be found by non-category people. (e.g., you are selling a comic book and it happens to be about dogs, and from the title you get bidders who are dog lovers and couldn't care anything about comics.)
Bob Fleischer -- Actually, Richard, eBay IMHO has great need for the quick start guide you're putting together. Granted, they do have one on the site, but something's missing, perhaps all the detail is there, but not the spirit, strategy, or something.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob Fleischer -- Interesting idea. Once I put my guide/articles/chapter together (should finish it this weekend), I ought to alert Ebay, in the wild hope that they might want to link to it or post it at their site (and pay me something). Yes, on my the first few days of poking around at Ebay, I found the site and the procedures very confusing and intimidating. They do need an easy primer, a doorway.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Bob F. - With the number of auctions they have I'll bet they don't think they need anything extra.
Bob Fleischer -- Perhaps you're right that they don't think they need anything extra. In my experience, early adopters of a new technology or paradigm put up with a lot that many potential users would not. I'm tempted to try out other auction sites and see if they are imitative of eBay or innovative.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob Fleischer -- Interesting point. Ebay's success may make them blind to weaknesses. Or they may figure that with the millions of items for sale and millions of buyers, newcomers will be willing to put up with just about anything. But, what the heck -- I'll give it a try.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Richard- That's exactly right. If something is popular and it works, you make people learn on their own or start charging for training. Seen any good eBay classes lately ? :)
Richard Seltzer -- Bob Zwick -- I don't know if it's any good, by Tracy Marks discovered an Ebay course at ZDU www.zdu.com, complete with a textbook.
Ron Rothenberg -- Ebay does provide pointers to individual advice on how to run an ebay business, how to post photos, how to mail internationally, and other community advice.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob Zwick -- sorry about the disappearance of that Globe article. I hate it when sites do that. (Bob Fleischer pointed me to it a couple days ago). What was most interesting to me was the "Power Sellers" program which they mentioned -- something you can get into if you sell $2000 or more a month. I was hoping that Ron Rothenberg would be able to join us again today -- he is a Power Seller. I'd like to get details on how that really works (or doesn't).
Bob Fleischer -- http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/152/business/Bid_for_independence+.shtml -- still seems to be there for me.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Ron seemed to complain about the lack of delivery of the power seller support in one of our chats. Perhaps it's a program that is in it's infancy.
Ron Rothenberg -- just mention my name and I appear.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron, Re: power buyers -- you didn't seem too happy with the program. it was mentioned in a recent Globe article. That article indicated that it was for folks who sell $2000+ per month. Does Ebay calculate that and automatically notify you? (I'm in the region and have been for a couple months, but haven't heard anything). do you have to request membership? And how many months do you have to be at $2000. And is it worth the trouble? What benefits do they provide?
Ron Rothenberg -- yes, they calculate it and notify you. You can also sign up on the seller's page.
Ron Rothenberg -- I can't think of WHY you'd want to be a powerseller - you get to put a little logo on your screens, but why would you want everyone to know that you were doing a few thousand a month.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- Interesting. I guess it depends on what kind of thing you are selling. If you are selling brand name merchandise, I suspect that any shred of evidence that you are serious and professional and trustworthy can help. Perhaps that wouldn't apply in the collectibles, attic-clearing categories.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob Zwick -- Yes, it's interesting the behavior you can get in an environment with lots of participants. It's a bit like brownian motion -- if you get enough of these bidders banging around the behavior that on an individual basis is purely random becomes very consistent statistically and you can, with confidence, sell valuable items with a starting bid under a dollar. Ron does that all the time. And yes there are other sites, like, I believe www.firstauction.com, which hold "flash auctions" -- they sell new brand name merchandise (like cameras and computers) with an opening bid of about $1, and the whole auction takes place over the course of just half an hour. They count on the excitement and the desire to "win" to drive the price up near or even beyond what you'd pay in a store.
Ron Rothenberg -- I have tried upping the starting bid to $9.99 - not much of a difference in results. I thought $.99 sent the wrong message about the product.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob Zwick -- That's strange about a 3% surcharge for credit cards. I haven't seen that and don't do it myself. Yes, you end up paying about that to the credit card processing company, but the savings in processing payments (not having to deposit paper checks at the bank) more than offsets such fees.
Ron Rothenberg -- Visa and mastercard regulations prohibit charging surcharge - they are calling merchants who do that and remind them of that fact.
Ron Rothenberg -- my theory is that all services are auctioned off, anyway. To get what they're worth, practitioners must market themselves and convince others of their value -- and be in the right place at the right time. As it turned out, last week, Ed's wife needed a root canal. her first impulse was to call the dental school, not check on ebay.
Ron Rothenberg -- services are complex - there are so many components to a service --it's hard to commodify. Reliability, liking the practitioner, history, delivery time, all matter very, very much and are hard to guarantee.
Ron Rothenberg -- did you look at homegain.com? That allows sellers of homes to shop for (and get bids and proposals from) real estate brokers for selling a house w/o actually having to talk to each one.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- I believe that there are a multitude
of possible successful business models for services, some of which could
use an auction-mode. I also believe that there are some services (like
real estate) that anyone buying a particular kind of thing (like a house)
really needs; and hence that it might make good business sense for purveyors
of those services to partner in some way with auction sites like Ebay,
so those buyers and sellers can get the services and info they want/need
readily -- not auctioning the services; but the availability of the services
makes it more likely that people will actually buy/sell that kind of thing
at the
auction site (let's face it, out of 2+ million auctions, 120 real estate
auctions isn't a heck of a lot).
Ron Rothenberg -- If you hire a carpenter at a good rate, but he is very unpleasant and doesn't show up when he says he will, you are unhappy. Most people will always pay a premium to get services from pleasant people.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- I don't think that services have to be "commodifiable" to be saleable auction style. And the people doing the bidding don't have to be end consumers. You mentioned last week, at the end, that HMOs put some medical procedures out for bid. I could easily imagine dental insurance, medical insurance, car insurance companies etc. having a set of approved vendors and using Web-based auctions to establish who is available to do certain work at certain times and for what prices.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Richard - you could test the waters for service auction by putting your speaker service on the block.
Ron Rothenberg -- It is illegal in most states to auction off real estate on ebay -- there are a multitude of disclosure and other laws that prevent brokers from doing it successfully -- ARELLO (the association of real estate licensing law officials) is looking into that now - They have been in touch with me.
Ron Rothenberg -- until recently ebay didn't accept real estate ads, though many got through.
Ron Rothenberg -- Yes, and people are just brimming over with happiness with the HMO system of going to the doctor with the lowest bid. I think people were happiest when they paid a premium, but chose doctors they liked and trusted.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- I believe that many of the real estate auctions at Ebay are For Sale by Owner (I ought to take a closer look.) Regarding disclosure laws etc., that again is an opportunity for related services. Instead of saying "this can't be done", it should be a matter of saying "this is how it can be done", with easy access to the folks who can provide the necessary services. Naturally, some in the the industry will put up barriers, to hold onto their turf. But others might well see an interesting opportunity here -- a way to by-pass many of the existing procedures.
Ron Rothenberg -- If you call 10 insurance agents now, they will bid on your insurance -- but do you always take the lowest bid, or go with someone you;ve trusted and know.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- Amen regarding trust with an insurance agent or an HMO or doctor. But, say for a car insurance company, when they have made an assessment of the extend of damage on a car, for big, expensive jobs, it would make sense for them to post the info and photos on the Web and have repair shops in the area bid for the work. the car owner could choose not to go there, but could then end up having to pay the difference. I'm not saying that the car owner would love that model. But it would make good business sense for the insurance company. Or if I as an individual could get a credible, trusted description/photos of the damage on my car, I might want to put the job out for bid myself to a set of pre-selected, trusted repair shops. I see a variety of interesting business models here.
Ron Rothenberg -- homes have always been sold by the auction method in this country -- a regular sale by a real estate agent is an auction in slow motion -- it is complex, though. with many different terms - not just price.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- As of now, Ebay has a "real estate" category, and they have a special rate schedule for real estate sales, so it looks like they intend to keep it and grow it. (By the way, I believe that homebid.com, which is auctions run, I believe, for and by real estate brokers, has about the same number of real estate auctions as Ebay. Also, take a look at the Ebay auctions -- they are getting lots of bids on those real estate auctions.
Ron Rothenberg -- Larry Latham Auctioneers has an online auction site for selling residential property -- mostly fha, government owned, bank-owned, etc. I think it's homebid.com
Ron Rothenberg -- In humans, Fear of loss is stronger than desire for gain -- that's the greatest bar to selling of intangibles anywhere. I am afraid that the carpenter i hire will take my money and do shoddy work.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- If selling a service you should problably list "references" and "Liability Ins. / Bonding" so that bidders could check you out before bidding.
Ron Rothenberg -- ZDNN:
Are Web auctions classified killers?
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2258398,00.html
Ron Rothenberg -- Classified ads are an $18 billion / year market. Why would you advertise your Barbie in the Boston Globe when you can do it on Ebay?
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- Amen. Auctions are faster, simpler, cheaper, and far more effective than printed classified ads, for many categories of goods. (Plus, if you know what you are doing, you can end up getting far more for the items you are trying to sell.) But there is a learning curve. While Ebay has millions of users, there are tens of millions of other people for whom this still looks like rocket science.
Richard Seltzer -- Bob Zwick -- No I don't know anyone who tried to get employment that way at Ebay. To me, it sounds like an auction style could help in employment -- but probably with a different set up than Ebay, with a variety of support services and ways to check credibility. I'm very curious about the viability of such modified-auction business models. I don't think it's a yes-or-no; I think it all depends on how you set things up.
Richard Seltzer -- FYI -- we often talk about concerns about security in doing credit card transactions over the Internet; the reality and the paranoia of the general public. I'm seeing the opposite at Ebay. About 10% of my customers send me cash through the regular snail mail -- including a customer in Germany who has no problem at all about sending $100-200 at a time that way. Interesting phenomenon. Many have gotten used to dealing with Ebay vendors who won't take personal checks (in my book that's a mistake), so rather than go to the hassle of getting a money order, they just stuff cash in the envelope.
Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- I personally don't like the length ( 3 or 7 days) of the auctions. It appears to me that the last day is the only one that counts. I won't bid on something 7 days in advance. It's a waste of bandwidth and my time.
Richard Seltzer -- Ron -- did you notice any drop off in Ebay bids over the last week? Tracy ran into that, and I did too, for no evident reason. I just wondered if this was random in our case, or if it was across the board. (Perhaps related to the holiday weekend).
Ron Rothenberg -- Yes, weekends and holidays are always much slower. Tuesday, Wed, and Thurs nights are my peak nights. 11pm is my peak time. Your mileage may vary.
Richard Seltzer -- All -- the hour is just about over already. I'm inclined to give this topic one more week. (I'm still learning). How do you feel about that? Or are there other topics you feel would be more valuable to explore right now?
Bob@CottageMicro.Com Bob@CottageMicro.Com -- Richard - I'm for one more week. I'm learning a lot and building confidence.
Richard Seltzer -- This time around I'll try to be more prompt about posting the edited transcript, check www.samizdat.com/#chat All -- before you sign off, please post your URL and email address (don't presume that the software captured it).
Richard Seltzer -- Thanks for joining us today. Hope you can make it next week. Please send me your followup comments and suggestions for future topics, seltzer@samizdat.com And please spread the word.
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